Tractionizers at the pre scutineering?

[max attack]

Is it possible for the clubs involved to have their tractionizers at the pre season scrutineering weekend?.
I know more people than just me would like to be able to buff up new tires ahead of time.Knowing in advace to be able to arrange its use would be great.

[Champ98]

Most club units are rented for a nominal fee to cover wear and such, (like rookies dropping cars on them), and only to respective club members. As you are well aware these things aren't cheap to buy or maintain. Dan and i may be able to make the TAC tractionizer available but only under supervision, to TAC members and for the fee of course ... $5:00 per axle.

[Mike Kamm]

Andy,

How much of a difference does tractionizing make to say, a Blizzak tire?

If two identicle cars with experienced drivers took to the track, one with tractionized and the other with non tractionized tires, which of the following would best describe the result for the tractionized driver?

Say in five laps, would he:

a. Be a few car lengths ahead?

b. Be half of a lap ahead?

c. Be a full lap or more ahead?

[Gary]

Andy:

If the TAC tractionizer is serviceable and could be available on the 8th and/or 9th, this TAC member team would like to make use of it. Supervision/assistance/outright help will be welcomed. If not at the track, then someplace else works too. In fact, if it is easier, name a time, and we will be there at the appointed hour. We have two cars to bring up on that weekend, and we've tires to do for both.

[Do It Sidewayz]

have fun tractionizing tires on that Alltrac!!!!

and the difference between a tracionized and nontractionized Blizzak....NIGHT AND DAY! you will also wear through the good portion of tread in about 3 weekends

[max attack]

Andy I had no expectations of free tractionizing and I do know of the cost of these tools.I'm a little upset that I recently found out my club didn't do any of the maintaince required on ours and that the guy who has it and does the maintaince is out of the country untill around the 8th of january.
Hence the reason I thought having the ability to scuff in a pair of tires prior to the 1st weekend would be helpfull.

Gary,you need a fwd 5x100 car for tractionizing the alltrac-a neon works well(for tractionizing anyways;) )

[Gary]

Tractionizing tires for the the Alltrac has always seemed fairly straightforward to me. Jack car up, remove front wheels, place front of car on jackstands. With the fronts in the air, and no front wheels, tires can be tractionized on the rear of the car just like you would on a rear drive car with an open diff. Am I missing something?

[Champ98]

There would be a marked difference on our short track between tractionized WS50's and non. On your monster tracks there still may be a difference in starts and cornering but it would give non tractionized tire time to catch up.

However if you can still find them a fresh WS15 tire against a tractionized WS50 would be more of a fair fight.

Gary, No probs with the tractionizer. Chris is right though you will need a donor car for the alltrac stuff, and don't forget this particular unit was set up years ago for mini wheels, so for 13'' running gear it is time consuming. What type of tire would you be working with?

Tom, I did not seem to sound brash, and I understand about your clubs tractionizer, perhaps you should offer to be the custodian of all things traction within your club!

[max attack]

Andy,Gary is dealing with fairly large diameter 14" tires,not sure how this affects the tac-onizer.
I didn't think you did sound brash btw(or even intend to sound that way)the written word can be tough to interprit at times no?.:D
As for taking over the tractionizer,since I've been a club member now for about 3 weeks it might be a bit brash to assume that role.;) Besides come solo season next year I intend to show them what traction is all about with the new and improved corolla!:p

[Gary]

Andy:

Celica Alltrac rubber is on 14" wheels, and the Corolla rubber is on 13's. Let me know if this is too big for the "Tac-onizer". Tires are new Yok IG10's which are a pretty soft compound and shouldn't cause problems.

Gary

[Do It Sidewayz]

Originally posted by Gary
Tractionizing tires for the the Alltrac has always seemed fairly straightforward to me. Jack car up, remove front wheels, place front of car on jackstands. With the fronts in the air, and no front wheels, tires can be tractionized on the rear of the car just like you would on a rear drive car with an open diff. Am I missing something?

Gary....

you might well want to be carefull with this method.

I'm not sure what type of center diff arrangement the Celica's use.....If they use a Viscus center diff, with a "locking" feature.

If it just uses a center diff and there is no "locking" feature, you are liable to burn out the center differential using this method.

If you are able to lock the center diff and you do. you will be fine. just make sure you lock the thing.

[Clutch Kiss]

Originally posted by Champ98
Most club units are rented for a nominal fee to cover wear and such, (like rookies dropping cars on them), and only to respective club members. As you are well aware these things aren't cheap to buy or maintain. Dan and i may be able to make the TAC tractionizer available but only under supervision, to TAC members and for the fee of course ... $5:00 per axle.

Howdy,

I am an Ice racing rookie who is bringing up 2 AWD Subaru's for this 2005 season. I have put new rubber on and need them tractionized. I understand that these units aren't cheap and I wouldnt want to break one.

Do you know anyone that would be kind enough to show me how / or tractionize them for me ? I will pay them accordingly also.

Any help would be HUGELY appreciated !

Max

[Mike Kamm]

Our club doesn't allow tractionizing, but if we did, I'd buy one of THESE (http://www.flattrack.com/wcrpage.htm) for $375.00 US and rent it out every week. It would probably pay for itself in it's second season.

http://www.flattrack.com/wcr/tractionizer.jpg

[Do It Sidewayz]

what kind of Subaru's are you bringing up???

If they are Legacys/imprezas or "full time AWD" you are going to have problems tractionizing.

Legacys, and Impreza's use a viscous center differential, and are not lockable.....meaning, as i mentioned above. if you just jack the car up, put it on jack stands and tractionize off one wheel, the Center differential will likely puke itself on you.

If they are Automatics....it's a different story, as you can just put in the FWD fuse and you have fwd...so tractionize away.


I think the only Subaru's i know with a locking center differential in the last like 15 years are.....The really old Subaru's which didn't have a center diff (just 50/50 lock), The later RXs, XTs, and XT6s, and the brand new STi's. That is ofcourse assuming you don't have a JDM DCCD tranny in the car :P

Let us know what kind of AWD Subaru's you have and we'll try to help you out. There are certain FWD cars that Subaru wheels will bolt onto, which you might want to beg or borrow to tractionize.

[Do It Sidewayz]

MIKE!!!!!

i don't think i'd lower a car onto that thing!!!!


looks like the only thing which holds the Rollers onto the frame is 2 5/16th inch bolts!!!!!!!! Not to mention it looks like those 1 inch diameter bearing shafts would prolly bend from the weight of a car.


THE tractionizer to have is Scotty's master piece....the S/\Ctionizer. Nicely sized rollers, nice and sharp tacks, nice strong frame.

[Mike Kamm]

Originally posted by Do It Sidewayz
MIKE!!!!!

i don't think i'd lower a car onto that thing!!!!


looks like the only thing which holds the Rollers onto the frame is 2 5/16th inch bolts!!!!!!!! Not to mention it looks like those 1 inch diameter bearing shafts would prolly bend from the weight of a car.


THE tractionizer to have is Scotty's master piece....the S/\Ctionizer. Nicely sized rollers, nice and sharp tacks, nice strong frame. Ooops,
Looks like that $375 tractionizer is for motorcycles or ATV's. Sorry about that! :p

[Champ98]

IT would be nice to get a hold of some pins like that though ... :eek:

[Clutch Kiss]

Originally posted by Do It Sidewayz
what kind of Subaru's are you bringing up???

If they are Legacys/imprezas or "full time AWD" you are going to have problems tractionizing.

Legacys, and Impreza's use a viscous center differential, and are not lockable.....meaning, as i mentioned above. if you just jack the car up, put it on jack stands and tractionize off one wheel, the Center differential will likely puke itself on you.

If they are Automatics....it's a different story, as you can just put in the FWD fuse and you have fwd...so tractionize away.


I think the only Subaru's i know with a locking center differential in the last like 15 years are.....The really old Subaru's which didn't have a center diff (just 50/50 lock), The later RXs, XTs, and XT6s, and the brand new STi's. That is ofcourse assuming you don't have a JDM DCCD tranny in the car :P

Let us know what kind of AWD Subaru's you have and we'll try to help you out. There are certain FWD cars that Subaru wheels will bolt onto, which you might want to beg or borrow to tractionize.



We are bringing up a 1991 Legacy (automatic). And an early 90's Loyale(manual).

Let me know if you can help.

Thanks,
Max

[Clutch Kiss]

Do It Sidwayz,

Do you know of a good web site where I could find out the offset, dimensions and bolt pattern of my subaru's ?

This way if I can find someone willing to help we can just put the wheels on his car to tractionize them to avoid the AWD problems you are talking about. (if they are compatible)

[Mike Kamm]

Here's the best one I know of: HERE (http://www.nasioc.com/) It's the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club.

They even have many threads about ice racing. :)

[Do It Sidewayz]

The legacy...since it's an Automatic you should be ok. There is a fuse holder on the firewall labeled "FWD" you should be able to throw a fuse in the holder and you'll have FWD so you can go ahead and tractionize on the front wheels.

Now the Loyale..you should be fine....just throw it in 2wd. and tractionize on the front wheels.


BTW, the legacy is 5x100 and will fit on neons and that kinda crap.

the loyale is 4x140....there is nothing they will fit onto

[Clutch Kiss]

Originally posted by Do It Sidewayz
The legacy...since it's an Automatic you should be ok. There is a fuse holder on the firewall labeled "FWD" you should be able to throw a fuse in the holder and you'll have FWD so you can go ahead and tractionize on the front wheels.

Now the Loyale..you should be fine....just throw it in 2wd. and tractionize on the front wheels.


BTW, the legacy is 5x100 and will fit on neons and that kinda crap.

the loyale is 4x140....there is nothing they will fit onto

Great, thanks alot.

I just need to find someone at the track with a tractionizer for rent and ill be good to go.

Im really looking forward to the 1st race weekend

[angus macsac]

Thanks for the plug Chris...

I have had nothing but positive results using this machine for ice race purposes.
If you are interested in purchasing a S/\Ctionizer you can visit the web site here...


If you want to rent the beast it is available to use supervised in my shop in Whitby.
Cost is $25/pair.
Contact me at scoty@rogers.com
or call 905-430-9179

Scott

http://www.uniwerks.ca/tractionizer/tract49med.jpg

[98RACE]

Will you have it there for the frist race day?? Or can it only be at your shop??

[angus macsac]

this year It will only be available at the shop except for the DAC weekend when it will be trackside