Rules&weightcalc

[WRL]

Let me start off by saying this post is not meant to bash anyone who is involved in any capacity with the TGT series, nor is it meant to be used to as a form to lobby the Laguna’s approval in the series. There is very little chance of the Laguna’s participating in this series for a variety of reasons. It is just my opinion on the rules and calculator.

After reviewing both the rule book and weight calculator, they make no sense when used in conjunction with each other. The rule book is wide open with vehicle mods, engine, suspension, brakes, etc… If this is the case, then why does the calculator take free mods into account? Since the rule book is wide open (mod your car to your hearts desire) then the only variable is engine displacement and the calculator should reflect such. It doesn’t matter if we bring a 2 litre BTCC car or a 2 litre VW, the base weight should be the same for both cars with the current rules. One must assume with a wide open rule book that teams will build and develop cars to their maximum potential. It makes no sense to have the current rules and punish teams like Kensai, Nick and who ever else for building/investing in equipment to compete under the current rules. If the series wants to restrict vehicle performance/level the playing field then the rules should reflect such.

The weight calculator makes no sense. The calculator puts an excessive amount of importance on brake rotor size. At least with our car every 25mm reduction is equal to 40lbs. Here’s an extreme example, we reduce our engine valves from 16 to 2. This allows us a weight reduction 126 lbs. If we install 50mm brake rotors front and rear then were allowed a weight reduction of over 600lbs. I know this is a silly example, it is only meant to demonstrate a flaw in the calculator.

Sorry if this post comes across offensive, not trying to.

Ken

[rmicroys]

So what fair changes can be made that you feel would make it worth while for you to participate?

[ScotcH]

Well, what about simply basing classes on power/weight ratio? This seems like it could work (not that I've given it much thought ... my car is in GT anyway).

So, a 200hp VW will be in the same class as a 200hp BMW, and their race weight will be say 2500lbs, with a 12.5:1 ratio. Also, a 150hp civic will be in the same class if its race weight is 1875lbs. I realize this will not work across the board (like a 900hp car would have to weigh 11,250lbs), you could have a few classes ... say >20:1, 20-15, 14-10, 9-7, <7:1. Basically, pick your ratio, and that dictates your race weight (based on hp). Super easy to enforce with dyno and scales.

Just some ideas ... to throw in the mix.

[Andy]

"So what fair changes can be made that you feel would make it worth while for you to participate?"

Well, maintain the calculator, it has been developed, implemented, and everyone is familiar with it.

But, the issue with the brake rotor size as illustrated by Ken could stand to be adjusted. Any time a team choses to run larger diameter rotors, and larger calipers, they have already accepted a weight penalty. In many cases the extra weight of the caliper/rotor alone is greater than the performance they afford.

In my experience as a board member on the Solo 1 rule committee, we never penalized brake upgrades. They are in the interest of safety, and are available for every vehicle at a reasonable cost. Do we really want to encourage teams to try and optimize the smallest brake setup possible to the point of endangering fellow competitors?

Would it be possilbe to test a revision of the calculator that did not include brake size?

Also, if restrictors + success ballast + lower starting weights are what are necessary to even the playing field, yet maintain low race weights I am all for them. Any top level, professionally built car can install a restrictor with minimal modifications thus not forcing the top teams to leave the series, and there are no safety issues. A racecar can not add excessive ballast without adverse effects in regards to safety.

Thanks,

Andrew

[Andy]

"Well, what about simply basing classes on power/weight ratio? This seems like it could work (not that I've given it much thought ... my car is in GT anyway).

So, a 200hp VW will be in the same class as a 200hp BMW, and their race weight will be say 2500lbs, with a 12.5:1 ratio. Also, a 150hp civic will be in the same class if its race weight is 1875lbs. I realize this will not work across the board (like a 900hp car would have to weigh 11,250lbs), you could have a few classes ... say >20:1, 20-15, 14-10, 9-7, <7:1. Basically, pick your ratio, and that dictates your race weight (based on hp). Super easy to enforce with dyno and scales."

This does not make sense. Unless you ban turbocharged cars from competing you have no means of ensuring that boost values are not altered at any given time during the race, then returned to a pre set value following the race. Dyno's are also very expensive, and would require excessive amounts of time and resources to perform pulls on each car before and after the race. This would not be super easy to enforce.

Andrew

[JGraves]

I agree that dyno'ing cars at the track is not fesible for the series but if you were to look at potential power to weight in the form of minimum weight for a given restrictor plate diameter you could be on to something. The restrictor plate would have to be installed upstream of any turbo or supercharger and there may have to be additional penalties for forced induction and/or drivetrain layouts but I think that is as simple as a ruleset can get.

A 2500 pound BMW with a 45mm restrictor could race against a 1800 pound civic with a 35mm restrictor in touring. The same BMW, equipped with a 65mm restrictor could also race against a 3500 pound camaro with a 73mm diameter in GT. I'm not suggesting my numbers are right but the concept in there.

The nice thing about the restrictor plate is that it doesn't care what is in your motor, how big it is or how much you paid your engine builder, the potential power remains roughly the same.