Body Kits

[vivid]

Would body kits fall under this section "6.3.2" "Modify exterior panels and/or trim any/all except hood", or would they be exempt?:confused:

[thgear]

as long as they weigh the same or more

and they dont disguise your wheel well width...

from what i read

[malcolm]

Now that you're going to faster circuits (ie, mosport's long track, and Calabogie), aero will play a much bigger part... If you have an integrated front splitter, that could pay major dividends over a lap. Even on slower circuits, it could help.

For example, around the short and twisty Tsukuba Circuit in Japan, an S2000 cut almost three seconds off it's time just by installing an off-the-shelf bodykit.

http://www.c-west.co.jp/labs/fudo_s2000.html

Something to think about. :)


(edit: I rephrased my first sentence. I started off the sentence asking a question, got distracted and finished the sentence by making it a statement)

[Dave]

good point, Malcolm. Aero could indeed start to play a bigger role in Solo 1. We'll have to see how that goes.

For '05, body kits are free as long as they don't reduce the curb weight of the car in the process. However, fender flares will cost you two PIPs since we can longer determine if your wheels/tires fall within the confines of the OE wheel well.

[miataboi]

Originally posted by malcolm
Just out of curiosity, now that you're going to faster circuits (ie, mosport's long track, and Calabogie), aero will play a much bigger part... If you have an integrated front splitter, that could pay major dividends over a lap. Even on slower circuits, it could help.

For example, around the short and twisty Tsukuba Circuit in Japan, an S2000 cut almost three seconds off it's time just by installing an off-the-shelf bodykit.

http://www.c-west.co.jp/labs/fudo_s2000.html

Something to think about. :)

Good point!!!
Hell... read what the driver himself had to say!!!

"ƒGƒAƒ?‚È‚µ‚ÍŒ‹?\‚¨‚Á‚©‚È‚¢‚Ë‚¥?BƒAƒ“ƒ_?[ƒI?[ƒo?[‚ÌŒXŒü‚ª‹_‚¢‚ñ‚¾‚æ‚Ë?BƒŠƒA‚̃gƒ‰ƒNƒVƒ‡ƒ“‚̓[ƒ“ƒ[ƒ“Š|‚©‚ç‚È‚¢‚µ?A‚»‚ê‚Å‚¢‚Ä‹““®‚ªƒs?[ƒL?[‚¾‚©‚ç?Aƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo?[‚ÌŽdŽ–—Ê‚ª‘½‚¢‚æ‚Ë?B‘΂µ‚ăGƒAƒ?•t‚«‚Í?Aƒgƒ‰ƒNƒVƒ‡ƒ“•s‘«‚ª‰ü‘P‚³‚ê‚Ä‚¢‚邨‚©‚°‚Å?AƒRƒ“ƒgƒ??[ƒ‹‚Å‚«‚é”͈͂ª?L‚ª‚Á‚Ä‚¢‚é?BƒR?[ƒi?[?i“ü‚Ńtƒ?ƒ“ƒg‚̉×?d‚ðƒuƒŒ?[ƒLƒ“ƒO‚ʼn҂¢‚Å‚â‚Á‚Ä?AŒy‚_ƒtƒ?ƒ“ƒgƒXƒ‰ƒCƒh?ó‘Ô‚©‚ç‘S‘̂̉×?d‚ð•Ï‰»‚³‚¹‚ăŠƒAƒXƒ‰ƒCƒh‚ÉŽ?‚¿?ž‚Þ?B‚·‚é ‚Æƒs?[ƒL?[‚È‹““®‚Æ‚Í‚¢‚¦?A?\•ª‚ɃRƒ“ƒgƒ??[ƒ‹‰º‚ÉŽû‚ß‚ç‚ê‚Ä‚¢‚ç‚ê‚é‚æ‚Ë?BS2000‚ÉŠÖ‚µ‚Ä‚Í?A‹““®‚̃s?[ƒL?[‚³‚ð—}‚¦‚é‚Ì‚ªƒGƒAƒ?‚Ì–ð–Ú‚ÆŒ¾‚¦‚é‚æ?B"

Convinced me!

[malcolm]

Just as a point of interest, the wing/splitter combo on the Corvette is worth about three seconds or more a lap at Mosport.

[thgear]

so would a home-depo splitter cost any pips or not?? :p

[vivid]

Originally posted by miataboi
Good point!!!
Hell... read what the driver himself had to say!!!

"ƒGƒAƒ?‚È‚µ‚ÍŒ‹?\‚¨‚Á‚©‚È‚¢‚Ë‚¥?BƒAƒ“ƒ_?[ƒI?[ƒo?[‚ÌŒXŒü‚ª‹_‚¢‚ñ‚¾‚æ‚Ë?BƒŠƒA‚̃gƒ‰ƒNƒVƒ‡ƒ“‚̓[ƒ“ƒ[ƒ“Š|‚©‚ç‚È‚¢‚µ?A‚»‚ê‚Å‚¢‚Ä‹““®‚ªƒs?[ƒL?[‚¾‚©‚ç?Aƒhƒ‰ƒCƒo?[‚ÌŽdŽ–—Ê‚ª‘½‚¢‚æ‚Ë?B‘΂µ‚ăGƒAƒ?•t‚«‚Í?Aƒgƒ‰ƒNƒVƒ‡ƒ“•s‘«‚ª‰ü‘P‚³‚ê‚Ä‚¢‚邨‚©‚°‚Å?AƒRƒ“ƒgƒ??[ƒ‹‚Å‚«‚é”͈͂ª?L‚ª‚Á‚Ä‚¢‚é?BƒR?[ƒi?[?i“ü‚Ńtƒ?ƒ“ƒg‚̉×?d‚ðƒuƒŒ?[ƒLƒ“ƒO‚ʼn҂¢‚Å‚â‚Á‚Ä?AŒy‚_ƒtƒ?ƒ“ƒgƒXƒ‰ƒCƒh?ó‘Ô‚©‚ç‘S‘̂̉×?d‚ð•Ï‰»‚³‚¹‚ăŠƒAƒXƒ‰ƒCƒh‚ÉŽ?‚¿?ž‚Þ?B‚·‚é ‚Æƒs?[ƒL?[‚È‹““®‚Æ‚Í‚¢‚¦?A?\•ª‚ɃRƒ“ƒgƒ??[ƒ‹‰º‚ÉŽû‚ß‚ç‚ê‚Ä‚¢‚ç‚ê‚é‚æ‚Ë?BS2000‚ÉŠÖ‚µ‚Ä‚Í?A‹““®‚̃s?[ƒL?[‚³‚ð—}‚¦‚é‚Ì‚ªƒGƒAƒ?‚Ì–ð–Ú‚ÆŒ¾‚¦‚é‚æ?B"

Convinced me!

ROFLMAO:D :D :D :D :D

[malcolm]

Originally posted by thgear
so would a home-depo splitter cost any pips or not?? :p

not sure about the pips, but it works quite well on the 'vette. we call it a "natural composite splitter" ;)

[Dave]

splitters and spoilers are free for Solo 1.

[Tashko]

Originally posted by malcolm
not sure about the pips, but it works quite well on the 'vette. we call it a "natural composite splitter" ;)

What are you using for a splitter?

I was planning on making something, hopefully before the Mosport lapping.

[malcolm]

Well, this year we'll be using a material called "Alumalite." It is a sign material, with corrugated plastic sandwiched with sheet aluminum. Light and cheap.

Last year, we used a dense plywood, from an old lingerie cabinet from an old department store in our hometown. Great stuff it was. Worked really well. A lot of people use 1/4" aluminum plate, and some use 1/2" plywood. Pretty much anything rigid and light will work well.

MAKE SURE IT IS ATTACHED FIRMLY. Aerodynamics are suprising. Your splitter will create a lot of downforce, so make sure you have decent-sized bolts securing it to something rigid. Wire supports are also good, if the splitter is big.

[thgear]

so far i assume we are all talking about front splitters

what about back spliters, i'm pretty sure most modern cars are designed pretty well in the sense that your rear bumper doesnt act as a parachute, but would modifications under there at the back of the car be allowed as well? Short of taking off the bumper all together :D

or is the thoery that if your front splitter is well designed you wont really need a back splitter...

[vivid]

Since I have a aluminum hood(very light) would the same rules apply? No pip because no weight change?

Also the data sheet lists a track edition at 3225lbs, im running the performance edition which comes in at 3269lbs, a 44lbs diff. can i reduce my cars weight by that 44lbs without any PIP's?

[Dave]

vivid, yes generally speaking if you can provide reliable info that proves that a body mod you're doing (say substituting carbon hood for your aluminum one) doesn't lighten the car at all, we'll let you do it without incurring any PIPs.

As for your specific model variant of the 350Z, we should in fact add a new line to the spreadsheet to capture the different curb weight compared to the Track Edition. I have done so now, but in real terms this doesn't change your classification since your Starting PI only decreases by 0.4% (from 79.8 to 79.4%) as a result of the heavier curb weight. Since we don't use half PIPs, there's no real difference in classification between the two cars.

[vivid]

But can I reduce my weight to the Track Edition spec's and not add PIP's?

[Dave]

nope, we'll just classify your car correctly to begin with.

[vivid]

ok:( ,

[malcolm]

so far i assume we are all talking about front splitters
[/quote

yep

[quote]
what about back spliters, i'm pretty sure most modern cars are designed pretty well in the sense that your rear bumper doesnt act as a parachute, but would modifications under there at the back of the car be allowed as well? Short of taking off the bumper all together

I think you mean a diffuser... In order to do that, you will need a full undertray, with a raised surface at the end. In cross-section, it would look rather similar to this (on the underside only, of course):

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/diffuser5.jpg

From: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/diffuser.htm ^^ an excellent article on diffuser theory.

Basically what a diffuser does is slow down the accelerated air going underneath the car. The mouth of the diffuser (the front part) causes a low pressure peak, which sucks the car to the ground.

A splitter, on the other hand, works by not allowing air that would normally go under the nose from actually going under the nose, and instead, forces it around the side or over the car. The air pushes down on the splitter, which in turn pushes down on the car.

As far as getting a rear diffuser to work on your car, you'll also need stiff suspension so the underbody stays level most of the time... You'll also need to do a lot of testing to make sure it's actually helping you.

or is the thoery that if your front splitter is well designed you wont really need a back splitter...(diffuser?)

If your splitter is well designed, you WILL need something on the rear (wing, diffuser, or a combination of the two). Remember, aero-balance at high speed is as, or more important than weight distribution... You wouldn't want a car with 75-25 front-to-rear weight distribution, so it should logically follow that you wouldn't want a similar aero-balance.

Remember, downforce isn't free. If you add a wing, you might be faster through the corners, but you'll be slower up the straights. You need to find that balance too. ;)

[CobraStang]

Has anyone tested a spring steel wing? Something that would only be fixed at the leading edge. As the force of the air pushing against the wing increases, the wing folds down, thereby reducing drag (and downforce). When there is less force due to less speed, the wind springs back up to provide more downforce, relative to speed. Just something I was daydreaming about.

[malcolm]

Those are banned in most forms of racing, because they are moveable aerodynamic devices. Great idea... but banned because of the potential for failure (through fatigue, or if mechanically controlled, a component failure in the mechanism).

If it's allowed in Solo, then do it ONLY if you feel safe with what's been put on your car.

Here is a sketch I made. You'll need to choose a material based on the Young's modulus (the stress over the strain). Then you can do some calculations to figure out what the force on the flexible section is, and then figure out from that what the deflection would be. Good luck! :D

[Dave]

LOL...Solo 1 is predominantly for street cars or near street cars (trailer queens that aren't far from being street legal), plus the occasional wacko like Adam who builds a grenade to try to go faster than the Z06's :) We haven't given much thought to the aero part of our rulebook, but if Russ builds an aero adjustable wing and it flies off and kills a marshal, I'll be first in line to slap him silly. We do reserve the right to refuse entry of any car if we feel it's unsafe for any reason.

But a well built splitter combined with a rear spoiler can certainly help the lap times if enough testing is done to get the balance right. No doubt about that. I used to run a splitter and an adjustable rear wing on my hatch but the splitter was such a PITA in terms of ground clearance that I haven't bothered rebuilding it (yes it got trashed during an off, like all splitters do). I prefer being lazy and a bit slower ;)

[malcolm]

LOL...Solo 1 is predominantly for street cars or near street cars

I agree... aero should be limited... haha. An easy rule to police, used in the British Touring Car Championship, was to restrict the splitter from being able to be viewed from above. A simple tool could be made, which would effectively be a leveling device, attached to a vertical arm, to test if the line drawn from the front bumper downwards is vertical.

By limiting front splitter size, you will also limit rear wing/diffuser size as well. They can bolt on a huge wing, but it will just make them understeer because they can't get enough downforce from the splitter.

[Dave]

Yeah, we may very well have to look at limiting aero at some point if we start seeing Solo 1 cars showing up with really aggressive splitter/spoiler set-ups.

[CobraStang]

Thanks for the warning. I'll start working on my rules whining now. :)

[Dave]

LOL...no worries there, Russ. You've got that down to a fine art already! :p

[DECH_92]

I was thinking of using this splitter :eek:

[malcolm]

someone say "oversteer"? ;)

[Tashko]

Has everybody been reading their Race Car Engineering magizines?!?

Thanks for the insights malcolm...I didn't think a homebrew jobby splitter would be effective enough to require a corresponding increase in rear downforce.

I figured most cars tend to get light in the front end at high speeds and that a splitter would help balance out the "stock" imbalance.

[Dave]

OMG...that picture is GOLD! How to ruin a perfectly good Supra...

And I love the side skirt "splitter" too! Yeesh...

[malcolm]

Has everybody been reading their Race Car Engineering magizines?!?

Yep!

I didn't think a homebrew jobby splitter would be effective enough to require a corresponding increase in rear downforce.

For sure. I have a Racecar Engineering issues floating around somewhere, and it has an article in it about front diffuser design. If you look at the CFD drawing comparing the two, you can see that a simple vertical air-dam, with a simple horizontal extension yeilds a BIG high-pressure area on top.

I figured most cars tend to get light in the front end at high speeds and that a splitter would help balance out the "stock" imbalance.

Some, yes. Others, like second and third gen RX7s are much the opposite, with the big round roof and rear window generating a decent amount of lift. When I took our old RX7 up the backstraight of Mosport for the first time, the rear was so light that it was floating all over the place. Not a nice feeling! ;)

OMG...that picture is GOLD!

It's a style in Japan... Not sure why. haha. Here's another nice car along a similar vein. ;)

[thgear]

that pic of the supra looks photoshoped to me.



do the aerodynamics apply to all cars or do different considerations have to be taken into account when planning for a FWD car?

[malcolm]

well, for a FWD car, my guess is that you would want it slightly more biased to the front, aerodynamically. However, it would only be by a small amount. I would set up your aero kit to be about even front to rear, with adjustibility so you can tune it to your style.

oh, and none of the pics are photoshopped. It's an actual style of "tuning".

[DECH_92]

:( :rolleyes: :eek: :confused: :p

[DECH_92]

:D

[DECH_92]

:)

[Todd #65]

It appears there is a natural progression taking place, just like American cars became 'boats' over time, now it is happening to the imports!
This time the plaforms and decks are even bigger than the 50's....
:D

[Dave]

Looks like anime cartoons have really influenced car culture over there. That's some seriously wacky stuff! Those cars definitely have a bizarre anime quality to them though.

[thgear]

i just want to know how they drove them overthere without breaking off every singlepeice of plywood.

[kmorris]

Of course, some folks are a little more subtle with their modifications, such as this example, purportedly spotted outside a HADA meeting.http://www.firstclass.com/~kevin/big_tip1.jpg:eek:

[rpr]

Hey, that looks like my car!

http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/albums/can-non/aab.sized.jpg

Stand back when I hit the afterburners:

http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/albums/can-non/aaf.sized.jpg

[Bruce Mills]

Hey those Japanese cars are no worse than the so called "bikes" that are all the rage on TV right now.

sorry way off topic I'll go away now.

[thgear]

are u talking about those midget bikes i keep hearing about?

[Rob McAuley]

I should have read this thread before I posted my link in the Smack Talk Section (http://racing.kos.net/soloforums/showthread.php?s=&postid=50558#post50558).

[thgear]

i think some of those are VERY well done.

and then there are some i just want to pour gasoline over :)