View Full Version : Wanted: Volunteers for a PITL Experiment
As some of you know, the PITL organizers recruited me to write their event recap articles.
I have an idea for an article or a series of articles that may/may not be appropriate for these recaps, but that I want to try just for the heck of it. I intend to submit to some media sources when it's complete, if they're not okay for the PITL recaps. (Once a writer, always a writer...)
My idea is to find at least 2 volunteers that are willing to swap cars at a PITL event.
The catch is that I want the drivers to swap from FWD <-> RWD, RWD <-> AWD, or AWD <-> FWD.
So, to volunteer for my little experiment, you must meet the following requirements:
1 - plan on attending the next PITL event on June 4
2 - be willing to allow someone else to drive your car for the day
3 - have minimal experience on a drivetrain opposite of your own (I'm looking for people who can comment on a "fish out of water" experience, so if you can drive anything with a tranny like a pro, you're a tad too advanced for this one)
4 - have a clean driving record at all Solo2 events in the last year - if there have been curb, timing, tree, or marshal incidents in your recent driving history, I can't ask someone to hand over their keys to you. Sorry.
5 - be willing to surrender the passenger seat on at least one run to me, so I can take notes
Now, obviously my Insight is available for the FWD section of this - you always wanted to know what it's like to have 73 hp, right? :D - but I have no problems with having multiples of each car so we can make some of the trades in similarly prepared vehicles.
Anybody interested?
Furthermore, am I smoking crack on this and my plan sounds like it will produce the most boring article ever?
CURRENT VOLUNTEERS:
Jason D -> FWD Civic (HS)
Jay H -> RWD Toyota (Class?)
Adrian -> FWD Cavalier (HS)
Taylor
05-12-2005, 10:30 AM
You know.. I'd consider this.. if I didn't actually want to win the series. :) Having already missed an event... I can't scrap another.
Keith-02Accord
05-12-2005, 10:32 AM
Actually, I think it sounds like a pretty good idea Opal.
Unfortunately, I won't be at the June 4 PITL.
Taylor: Yes, I figured that could be a problem... ah well, I guess it'll just stay with those of us who aren't terribly competative ;)
Keith: The date of said experiment is negotiable. If volunteers are willing, but need a later event, that's fine!
gatherer
05-12-2005, 10:46 AM
I`m willing to participate
Hey Opal,
A whole lot of people that read these forums may not even qualify to your requirements. Which is a testament to the skill of all participants here.
Most here are fairly adept at driving vehicles of any drivetrain configuration. Perhaps if you relax the requirments, you'd have more of a field to choose from.
I know for a fact, that we could convince a couple of AWD folks to surrender their rides to help you out in your article, for a fee. Muahahahaha.. JK.. Seriously, I'm sure we could furnish someone...
BangHatch
05-12-2005, 11:02 AM
newbie's not allowed? :D
Originally posted by JoeT
Hey Opal,
A whole lot of people that read these forums may not even qualify to your requirements... Most here are fairly adept at driving vehicles of any drivetrain configuration.
I am in no way meaning to rule out those who are more experienced drivers. However, it's not much of a challenge (and therefore not much of an article) if you're an expert at driving everything.
I come from an AWD Subaru family myself, but I have ZERO experience auto-xing a Subaru!
I didn't figure that was a rarity (based on the friendly commentary last year re: the rwd and fwd shootout cars) but if it is, Joe, yes, I will absolutely loosen the requirements a little.
And of course, I would be happy to have a volunteer from the SPDA fold!
Also, to answer BangHatch's question, newbies are absolutely welcome! The catch being that whomever you're switching with has to be confident enough about your abilities to hand over the keys.
My requirements are just an attempt to keep everyone within comfort zone while trying something new. I don't want to add to safety concerns at an event in ANY way.
Clear as mud? :D
I'm interested! Sounds like some fun times.
Can't say I lack FWD experience though. Maybe you shoud drop me into a mid-engine car or AWD. :D
- J
Outsider
05-12-2005, 12:06 PM
I too would volunteer my services... oh, and the car, for a good story.
Can't say I've competitively driven anything other then FWD.
Anyway, maybe we should start some sort of list? Opal, have you jotted down who's already volunteered and how qualified they are in meeting your requirements?
Originally posted by Outsider
I too would volunteer my services... oh, and the car, for a good story.
Can't say I've competitively driven anything other then FWD.
Anyway, maybe we should start some sort of list? Opal, have you jotted down who's already volunteered and how qualified they are in meeting your requirements?
Updated the first entry to list the victims, er, volunteers who agreed for the 4th.
(Anyone who wants to play, but not on the 4th, we can set up a round two...)
gatherer
05-12-2005, 01:36 PM
I`ve never driven a RWD or AWD car ever...
B18C5
05-12-2005, 01:57 PM
It's a TON of fun switching cars. I was lucky enough to get a chance to drive an AWD Talon and a Miata my first year.
I'm not so sure past curbing/timing/bumping incidents are necessarily indicative of future performance though. I never hit anything before last Saturday at my second RWD autocross...
finboy
05-12-2005, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by B18C5
It's a TON of fun switching cars. I was lucky enough to get a chance to drive an AWD Talon and a Miata my first year.
:)
switching cars is A LOT of fun..
- appreciate or end up hating your own car
- compare different setups
the only thing that is important.. is that you are totally comfortable handing over your keys to another driver
its ok to say yes.. but its ok to say no as well
Guillermo
05-12-2005, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by B18C5
I'm not so sure past curbing/timing/bumping incidents are necessarily indicative of future performance though. I never hit anything before last Saturday at my second RWD autocross...
Maybe not, but it's enough evidence for me to not want you to race MY car in the near future.
finboy
05-12-2005, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Guillermo
Maybe not, but it's enough evidence for me to not want you to race MY car in the near future.
again.. we are all adults (or pretend to be sometimes)
point being.. if you are comfortable swaping keys or not..
its totally up to you
me.. i've let George drive my car in the past... and would trust him again
shit happens..
some treat others peoples property BETTER than they do their own..
others feel "it ain't mine.. who cares"
lets focus on what OG is trying to do.. and don't complicate things
-peace yo-
Guillermo
05-12-2005, 03:53 PM
I agree,
It's just a matter of trusting the person who you are going to swap cars with. I didn't mean to be rude about it, just came out harsh.
finboy
05-12-2005, 04:10 PM
werd
game on!!
Opal, the Feisty Grey Tractionally-challenged Corolla should be in DSS by then.
- J
Greg F
05-12-2005, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by JAYh
Opal, the Feisty Grey Tractionally-challenged Corolla should be in DSS by then.
- J
Are you saying that Opal is tractionally challenged? :confused: :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Greg F
Are you saying that Opal is tractionally challenged? :confused: :rolleyes:
LOL Well, you could argue my Insight WAS up until recently.
(Am I allowed to derail my own thread for a moment? Opal gets tires installed - the saga (http://www.insightracing.ca/index.php?p=49))
gatherer
05-12-2005, 09:53 PM
personally Geo can drive my car anytime he wants to school me solidly...I'm more likely to dent the car before him... anyways
I think the idea is great. and I think it's great that Opal is trying to bring peopl ethat might be "newer" (used for lack of a better word) to the sport into the limelight and let them have their 15 minutes of fame trying to drive something they haven't driven before...
Personally as a Car owner who has lent his vehicle out for a shoot out I know what it's like to be worried. personally at the HADA shoot out I was concerned more about wear and tear with consecutive runs then I was about Damage from poor driving skills. although a certain winning rear wheel drive driver had me worried :p (but he can co-drive my car anytime)
This is a great Idea and I think it'll help improve the driving skills of other drivers nd help increase the competition at events. the drive train swapping Idea will be interesting to see.
Actually I was referring to my car and its twenty-year-old Dunlops as tractionally-challenged. Hopefully I'll have found time to mount the Falkens by then.
(BTW Opal, I just read your little story. Suffice to say that even though I'm 5'9 and male :p I still insist on mounting and balancing my own tyres. Because 90% of shop techs are clueless f*ckwits.
Do yourself a favour and check your lugnuts with a torque wrench, because they sure as hell didn't use one!)
- J
Originally posted by JAYh
Do yourself a favour and check your lugnuts with a torque wrench, because they sure as hell didn't use one!)
Actually, as the shocker, I saw them using a torque wrench. Seriously.
Of course, they no doubt over tightened the lugs to the point where I'll have to jump up and down on the wrench to get them loose - buy your tickets now!
gatherer
05-12-2005, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by opal
Actually, as the shocker, I saw them using a torque wrench. Seriously.
Of course, they no doubt over tightened the lugs to the point where I'll have to jump up and down on the wrench to get them loose - buy your tickets now!
3 -1 odds for her not having to jump up and down on the wrench
BangHatch
05-12-2005, 11:03 PM
anybody want to test drive a mazda6 for autoX?? :D
B18C5
05-12-2005, 11:32 PM
Heh G. I can totally understand why you wouldn't, especially since we've pretty much only met once and the things you've seen and heard probably don't make the best impressions. LOL!
Personally I go crazier in my own car, since I'd rather bust mine than pay to fix someone else's.
I'd be a little apprehensive about someone driving my car now. It depends on who it is and on which lot. In the Integra by the end I didn't care. I knew if I ran over a curb I could replace whatever part of the suspension broke or bent relatively cheaply. Even if the frame got destroyed I knew I could just grab another.
I absolutely love being able to compare runs in the same car. It can be empowering like when I beat Dave P in his car by .423 seconds at a Solo 2. It can also be humbling, like when Dave P beat me in my own car by... hrm, can't remember. LOL!
I remember driving Mr. Glenslide's car so vividly. More than I remember driving the R when it was new. It was so much bloody fun I couldn't believe it. I was wondering how I ended up with a del Sol instead of that? Hell, even how did I end up with the Integra. At the time I think the Integra was a little quicker, but Ken's car was so much more enjoyable.
Or how (sorry I don't even know ST's name on the board) ST's CRX was so much twitchier yet sharper than mine. And how much respect I had for how he managed to keep that car on the edge all the time instead of spinning it like I did. Tee hee.
Or (damn time sucks for my already bad memory), whoever's AWD Talon that was, with the super wide tires. It was so hard to keep on the boost, and how it needed so much man handling to go fast.
Whoever participates in this swap is going to be in for an ARESOME time! (that doesn't mean I'm volunteering yet, let me get a couple more dings first) hahaha
DareBee
05-13-2005, 07:45 AM
1 request for Opal
please keep the number limited to 3 or 4 people (if you can).
I can forsee this being difficult to look after at the timing tent, as well we may have to create an "exhibition" class for participating members, there are other methods - we (organisers) can discuss later once you have an official car/driver names submission for us.
happy hunting
13inches
05-13-2005, 08:53 AM
If the drivers are going to be changing cars/classes throughout the day then DareBee is right, its going to be a nightmare at the tent. If each driver is just running one car all day and they let us know at registration (esp. if they're series registered), then its much easier to manage on the computer.
Either way, its an excellent idea and we'll be happy to do what we can to help out!
Originally posted by 13inches
If each driver is just running one car all day and they let us know at registration (esp. if they're series registered), then its much easier to manage on the computer.
Either way, its an excellent idea and we'll be happy to do what we can to help out!
That's the option I'm talking about here, just in case it wasn't clear.
It's a swap for the day - hence why Taylor's made the point that if you are serious about the series, you won't want to be participating.
Darebee, it's definitely restricted to a few cars - I don't want this turned into a management nightmare.
Since we seem to have more fwd volunteers than others, we may just have to do straight car swaps. Two angles on the same story - I don't mind :)
Many thanks for the feedback and the great commentary/alternate points of view, guys. Do appreciate it!
finboy
05-13-2005, 09:33 AM
there's nothing to say you couldn't swap rides if you're in the SAME CLASS though..
as long as the numbers are attached to the car i don't believe
its an issue with the pitl organizers
most cases.. the car swap'n happens during fun runs
George.. i think the talon you're talking about was Ed's Laser
(think it was fwd only)
amazing... the season is just STARTING!!!!!!
I might be interested in this. I've only driven AWDs at autox and am curious how a RWD and FWD feels like. My car right now is a DS classed WRX in the regionals. I'm not PITL series registered so class change isn't an issue. I've done STis and other WRX's at PITL and always enjoyed the event.
For fun I'd be most interested in a RWD swap. A good power to weight ratio is always a treat. I really enjoyed the STi on the infamous multi lot crossover layouts.
Since I have little experience driving FWD's even on the street it would be a fish out of water experience for me. I'm still curious how so many of the FWD cars can go that fast. Lot's of respect for the FWD cars even though I don't know how ya'll do it. :)
My understanding is:
. The drivers should have enough experience in their own car (not necessarily fast) to have a stable safety record. Awareness to changing conditions to safely avoid danger when the inevitable cone carnage and spin-out occurs.
. Willingness to learn a different car and give feedback during the day.
. Not worried about car/class issues in the club series.
. Trust the other driver and her/his car.
I think the main reason why its FWD drivers volunteering is because RWD guys are a little scared of what will happen to a FWD driver in a tail happy car. I know my car can be quite tail happy especially with the tires it has.
P.S. You may want to consider delaying this if it turns out to be a wet event.
soloZ
05-13-2005, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by J.C.
I think the main reason why its FWD drivers volunteering is because RWD guys are a little scared of what will happen to a FWD driver in a tail happy car. I know my car can be quite tail happy especially with the tires it has.
P.S. You may want to consider delaying this if it turns out to be a wet event.
Hey if your new car is in this I will drive it :) never driven a porsche on an autocross course. I drove one downtown not at legal limits by the way.
gatherer
05-13-2005, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by soloZ
I drove one downtown not at legal limits by the way.
yeah with down town traffic you probably weren't going anywhere near the speed limits.... :p
Taylor
05-16-2005, 11:34 AM
Haven driven an S2000 and MR2 competitively, I'm more than happy to take on other oversteer friendly RWD cars.
Course.. that doesn't help the experiement much.. but.. I'm just sayin'. :)
-Taylor
B18C5
05-16-2005, 12:39 PM
Hey Tay, would you be interested in a trade. ;)
Taylor
05-16-2005, 01:10 PM
Only if our cars are were the same class. :) I'm already an event down..
Of course if my results end up sucking...
DareBee
05-18-2005, 12:20 PM
Opal
I can not find a link to email you (or webmaster) on your site?
Am I a dumb azz?
Originally posted by DareBee
Opal
I can not find a link to email you (or webmaster) on your site?
Am I a dumb azz?
My personal site has my email (look for the little envelope) but insightracing.ca doesn't list contact info. DOH! I knew I was forgetting something.
So, uh, no, you're definitely not a dumbazz ... I think I have that title secured :D
opalATsio2.ca
miataboi
05-18-2005, 12:25 PM
I would caution AGAINST a FWD guy driving a RWD car at a PITL event with the usual "features" of the lot.
The other way around... I can see....
But even a long-wheelbase RWD driver driving a short wheelbased RWD car could get hairy.
Bronte would be a better venue IMHO.
It can get hairy... some FWD guys are used to braking HARD up to the apex! In a very neutral RWD car... you'd loop the sheite out of it.
I'd caution strongly.
R's don't give a lot of feedback... so you're asking for trouble.
It happens to me every year when I pull the Miata out of storage... after driving wrong-wheel drive all winter.
be careful.
Isn't the whole point to document the learning curve in a car very different than your own? I had a quick lesson in braking zones the first time I spun out. I learned something from that experience. I'm sure I could learn something from driving a car with only half the wheels pulling whether it was on the rear wheels or wrong wheels. :)
4 June approacheth. What's the word?
- J
Right now, the project is on hold.
There have been good arguments made about the, er, lot, so it's back to the drawing board.
Those of you who volunteered, I'll keep you posted. Many thanks for the patience.
Meanwhile, see you all on Saturday at PITL. Save me a seat, see your name in lights. Okay, maybe in print :D
I agree. It would have been fun but something like Brampton Centre is probably a better bet.
Then again, that wouldn't be a PITL event would it?
- J
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