Pax Results

[Chris P]

This is more for shits and giggles then anything else.

Event 1

Name First Class Car Best PAX Difference
1 Christian GT1 96 BMW 328is 76.914 73.222 0
2 Chris GT4 87 Honda CRX Si 80.016 73.295 0.073
3 Chris SGT3 91 Ford Mustang 76.195 73.452 0.230
4 Avi GT1 05 Subaru Impreza WRX ST 77.616 73.890 0.668
5 Dave GT1 97 Chevrolet Camaro 77.833 74.097 0.875
6 Ferdie GT4 84 Mazda RX-7 81.05 74.242 1.020
7 Adam GT3 91 Nissan 240SX 80.554 74.754 1.532
8 Marco PREP 01 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 73.94 74.827 1.605
9 James SGT3 89 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II 77.77 74.970 1.748
10 Hanif GT2 92 Honda Civic CX 79.786 74.999 1.777
11 David SGT3 93 Honda Civic CX 77.9 75.096 1.873
12 Rob GT2 98 BMW 328is 79.893 75.099 1.877
13 Wes GT3 92 Honda Civic Si 81.21 75.363 2.141
14 Riaan SGT2 03 Ford Mustang 77.43 75.572 2.350
15 John T1 00 Toyota Celica GT 83.639 75.610 2.388
16 Tom GT3 95 Acura Integra LS 81.913 76.015 2.793
17 Brad SGT3 02 BMW M Roadster 78.869 76.030 2.808
18 Brian GT4 03 Mazda Protégé 83.125 76.143 2.920
19 Taylor GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 82.106 76.194 2.972
20 Del SGT1 20 Chevrolet Corvette 77.192 76.266 3.044
21 John OPEN 80 Tiga Spec Racer 73.704 76.357 3.135
22 Peter T3 90 Hyundai Accent 87.092 76.641 3.419
23 Greg GT3 90 Mazda Miata 82.698 76.744 3.522
24 Norm GT4 87 Chevrolet IROC Camaro 83.93 76.880 3.658
25 Serge T4 00 Volkswagen Golf 88.722 77.011 3.789
26 Richard T1 98 Honda Civic 85.208 77.028 3.806
27 Jack GT3 00 Volkswagen Golf GTI 83.133 77.147 3.925
28 Phil GT2 97 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 82.101 77.175 3.953
29 Chris GT2 97 Eagle Talon TSi AWD 82.168 77.238 4.016
30 Jason T1 93 Honda Civic Cx 85.551 77.338 4.116
31 Scott GT2 95 BMW 325is 82.336 77.396 4.174
32 Les GT2 00 Acura Integra Type R 82.465 77.517 4.295
33 Jeff T1 93 Honda Civic CX 85.778 77.543 4.321
34 Graham GT1 82 VW Rabbit 81.55 77.636 4.413
35 Miles SGT2 91 Honda CRX DX 79.958 78.039 4.817
36 Steven SGT1 65 FactoryFive Roadster 79.014 78.066 4.844
37 Ron SGT2 01 Ford Mustang GT Bul 80.185 78.261 5.038
38 Tony GT3 90 Eagle Talon 84.353 78.280 5.057
39 Rob GT1 87 Chevrolet Players Camaro 82.34 78.388 5.166
40 David T2 93 Suzuki Swift GTi 87.882 78.391 5.169
41 Shakier GT3 03 MINI Cooper S 84.59 78.500 5.277
42 Joe MODI 69 Corvette Roadster 76.886 78.731 5.509
43 Mike GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 84.852 78.743 5.521
44 Colin GT4 03 Saab 9-3 Vector 86.023 78.797 5.575
45 Andrew GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 85.117 78.989 5.766
46 Rick T2 MR2 88.749 79.164 5.942
47 Bruce SGT3 93 Honda Civic Cx 82.229 79.269 6.047
48 Benjamin GT2 98 Acura Integra Type R 84.336 79.276 6.054
49 Pierre GT4 92 Nissan 240SX 86.55 79.280 6.058
50 Mohamed GT1 92 Honda Civic Si 83.352 79.351 6.129
51 Guillermo T4 00 Honda Insight 91.5 79.422 6.200
52 Arek SGT1 95 BMW M3 80.641 79.673 6.451
53 Gerry SGT2 93 Mazda RX-7 81.787 79.824 6.602
54 Jason GT1 89 Mazda RX-7 Turbo 83.855 79.830 6.608
55 Darren GT2 95 Honda Civic 85.018 79.917 6.695
56 Jack GT1 03 Nissan 350Z 83.974 79.943 6.721
57 Robin GT3 99 Subaro Impreza 86.293 80.080 6.858
58 Tashko SGT3 91 Eagle Talon AWD 83.158 80.164 6.942
59 Derek SGT3 88 Honda CRX 83.173 80.179 6.957
60 Raj T1 91 Honda Civic CRX Si 89.723 81.110 7.887
61 Rob GT3 02 Mazda Miata 87.656 81.345 8.123
62 John GT3 91 BMW 325i 88.246 81.892 8.670
63 Malcolm T1 87 BMW 535i 90.771 82.057 8.835
64 Rick GT3 99 Mazda Miata 88.838 82.442 9.220
65 Felix T2 04 Acura 1.7 EL 92.809 82.786 9.564
66 John GT1 90 Volkswagen Jetta 86.997 82.821 9.599
67 Gail GT3 05 Saab 9.2X Aero 89.664 83.208 9.986
68 Martin SGT3 88 Honda CRX 86.444 83.332 10.110
69 Brian T1 87 BMW 535i 92.309 83.447 10.225
70 Kristie GT3 92 Mazda Miata 90.265 83.766 10.544
71 Howie T1 81 Nissan 280ZX 93.07 84.135 10.913
72 Kevin MODI 96 Dwarf Dwarf 82.648 84.632 11.409
73 Michael SGT1 05 Cheverolet Corvette 85.788 84.759 11.536
74 Ron MODI 01 Rocost Super Seven 83.753 85.763 12.541
75 Jorje SGT3 87 Mazda RX7 Turbo 89.536 86.313 13.091
76 Luis GT4 86 Nissan 300ZX 95.14 87.148 13.926
77 Steven SGT3 Camaro 91.211 87.927 14.705

[Chris P]

Damn Hankook's :)

Event 2


Name First Class Car Best PAX Difference
1 Dave GT1 97 Chevrolet Camaro 73.654 70.119 0
2 Avi GT1 05 Subaru Impreza WRX ST 73.983 70.432 0.313
3 Hanif GT2 92 Honda Civic CX 75.072 70.568 0.449
4 Christian GT1 05 Subaru Impreza WRX ST 74.426 70.854 0.735
5 Russ GT1 97 Ford Mustang SVT Co 74.587 71.007 0.888
6 Steve GT2 04 Dodge SRT4 75.614 71.077 0.959
7 Chris GT4 87 Honda CRX Si 77.625 71.105 0.986
8 Taylor GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 76.661 71.141 1.023
9 Adam GT3 91 Nissan 240SX 76.809 71.279 1.160
10 Chris SGT3 91 Ford Mustang GT 73.996 71.332 1.214
11 James SGT3 89 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II 74.099 71.431 1.313
12 Rob GT2 98 BMW 328is 76.052 71.489 1.370
13 Riaan SGT2 03 Ford Mustang 73.474 71.711 1.592
14 Jeff SGT1 95 BMW M3 72.849 71.975 1.856
15 John OPEN 80 Tiga Spec Racer 69.593 72.098 1.980
16 Tom GT3 95 Acura Integra Ls 78.042 72.423 2.304
17 Brad SGT3 02 BMW M Roadster 75.272 72.562 2.444
18 David SGT3 93 Honda Civic CX 75.307 72.596 2.477
19 John T1 00 Toyota Celica GT 80.55 72.817 2.699
20 Greg GT3 90 Mazda Miata 78.494 72.842 2.724
21 Peter T3 90 Hyundai Accent 82.822 72.883 2.765
22 Rob GT1 87 Chevrolet Players Camaro 76.693 73.012 2.893
23 Mike GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 78.978 73.292 3.173
24 Richard T1 98 Honda Civic 81.143 73.353 3.235
25 Norm GT4 87 Chevrolet IROC Camaro 80.202 73.465 3.346
26 Tony GT3 90 Eagle Talon 79.736 73.995 3.876
27 Andrew GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 79.758 74.015 3.897
28 Scott GT2 95 BMW 325is 78.898 74.164 4.046
29 Steven SGT1 65 FactoryFive Roadster 75.164 74.262 4.143
30 Miles SGT2 91 Honda CRX DX 76.168 74.340 4.221
31 Martin PREP 02 Subaru Impreza WRX 73.47 74.352 4.233
32 Darren GT2 95 Honda Civic 79.133 74.385 4.266
33 Jack GT3 00 Volkswagen Golf GTI 80.3 74.518 4.400
34 Raj T1 91 Honda Civic CRX Si 82.508 74.587 4.469
35 Serge T4 00 Volkswagen Golf 86.003 74.651 4.532
36 Jason GT1 89 Mazda RX7 Turbo 78.418 74.654 4.535
37 Joe MODI 69 Corvette Roadster 72.934 74.684 4.566
38 Colin GT4 03 Saab 9-3 Vector 81.692 74.830 4.711
39 Arek SGT1 95 BMW M3 75.837 74.927 4.808
40 David T2 93 Suzuki Swift Gti 84.066 74.987 4.868
41 Gerry SGT2 93 Mazda RX-7 76.906 75.060 4.942
42 Les GT2 00 Acura Integra Type R 79.852 75.061 4.942
43 Fritz SGT2 03 Nissan 350Z 77.216 75.363 5.244
44 Mohamed GT1 92 Honda Civic Si 79.365 75.555 5.437
45 Pierre GT4 92 Nissan 240SX 82.555 75.620 5.502
46 Rick T2 87 Toyota MR2 85.718 76.460 6.342
47 John GT3 91 BMW 325i 82.706 76.751 6.633
48 Bruce SGT3 93 Honda Civic CX 79.93 77.053 6.934
49 Shakier GT3 03 MINI Cooper S 83.294 77.297 7.178
50 Derek SGT3 88 Honda CRX 80.303 77.412 7.293
51 Benjamin GT2 98 Acura Integra Type R 82.382 77.439 7.320
52 Felix T2 04 Acura 1.7 EL 87.067 77.664 7.545
53 Malcolm T1 87 BMW 535i 86.41 78.115 7.996
54 Gail GT3 05 Saab 9.2X Aero 84.734 78.633 8.515
55 Rick GT3 92 Mazda Miata 84.983 78.864 8.746
56 John T4 91 Plymouth Laser 90.988 78.978 8.859
57 Brian T1 87 BMW 535i 87.919 79.479 9.360
58 Martin SGT3 88 Honda CRX 83.2 80.205 10.086
59 Steven SGT3 88 Chervoret Camaro 83.7 80.687 10.568
60 Luis GT4 86 Nissan 300ZX 88.108 80.707 10.588
61 Steven GT2 04 Subaru Impreza WRX 85.995 80.835 10.717
62 Kristie GT3 92 Mazda Miata 88.435 82.068 11.949
63 Jamie T4 91 Plymouth Laser 95.677 83.048 12.929

[Chris P]

Event 3



Name First Class Car Best PAX Difference
1 Chris GT4 87 Honda CRX Si 63.892 58.525 0
2 Chris SGT3 91 Ford Mustang 61.52 59.305 0.780
3 Russ GT1 97 Ford Mustang SVT Co 62.373 59.379 0.854
4 Hanif GT2 92 Honda Civic CX 63.197 59.405 0.880
5 Avi GT1 05 Subaru WRX STi 62.709 59.699 1.174
6 Andy GT3 88 Ford Mustang 64.588 59.938 1.413
7 Luca GT2 Impreza 63.977 60.138 1.613
8 Kyle SGT3 04 Subaru Sti 62.45 60.202 1.677
9 Christian GT1 328is 63.402 60.359 1.834
10 Adam GT3 91 Nissan 240SX 65.05 60.366 1.841
11 James SGT3 89 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II 62.735 60.477 1.951
12 George T1 91 Honda Civic CRX Si 66.918 60.494 1.969
13 Rob GT2 98 BMW 328is 64.549 60.676 2.151
14 Taylor GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 65.46 60.747 2.222
15 John T1 00 Toyota Celica GT 67.271 60.813 2.288
16 Andre GT1 89 Honda Civic 63.938 60.869 2.344
17 Scott GT2 95 BMW 325is 64.784 60.897 2.372
18 Peter T3 90 Hyundai Accent 69.214 60.908 2.383
19 Tony GT3 90 Eagle Talon 65.646 60.919 2.394
20 Guillermo T4 00 Honda Insight 70.27 60.994 2.469
21 Tom GT3 95 Acura Integra LS 65.776 61.040 2.515
22 Richard T1 98 Honda Civic 67.584 61.096 2.571
23 Anthony GT1 Civic 64.318 61.231 2.706
24 Jack GT1 03 Nissan 350Z 64.343 61.255 2.729
25 Serge T4 00 VW Golf 70.601 61.282 2.757
26 Jack GT3 00 Volkswagen Golf GTI 66.08 61.322 2.797
27 Phil GT2 97 Eagle Talon T Si AWD 65.257 61.342 2.817
28 Wes T1 93 Honda Civic CX 67.861 61.346 2.821
29 Shane GT2 95 Acura Integra GS-R 65.326 61.406 2.881
30 Mike GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 66.194 61.428 2.903
31 Greg GT3 Miata 66.249 61.479 2.954
32 Andrew GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 66.321 61.546 3.021
33 Benjamin GT2 98 Acura Integra Type-R 65.48 61.551 3.026
34 Riaan SGT2 03 Ford Mustang 63.165 61.649 3.124
35 Del GT3 19 Ferrari 308GT4 66.499 61.711 3.186
36 Gerry SGT2 93 Mazda RX-7 63.374 61.853 3.328
37 Derek SGT3 88 Honda CRX 64.214 61.902 3.377
38 Darren GT2 95 Honda Civic CX 65.858 61.907 3.381
39 Rob GT1 87 Chevrolet Players Camaro 65.077 61.953 3.428
40 Jason T1 93 Honda Civic CX 68.584 62.000 3.475
41 Carl GT1 00 Acura Type-R 65.374 62.236 3.711
42 James GT1 02 Pontiac Firehawk 65.448 62.306 3.781
43 Robert GT2 97 Porsche Boxster 66.329 62.349 3.824
44 Ron SGT2 01 Ford Mustang GT Bul 63.906 62.372 3.847
45 Les GT2 00 Acura Integra Type R 66.365 62.383 3.858
46 Michael GT1 98 Honda Civic DX 65.648 62.497 3.972
47 Rick T2 87 Toyota MR2 70.336 62.740 4.215
48 Steven SGT1 65 FactoryFive Roadster 63.509 62.747 4.222
49 John OPEN 80 Tiga Spec Racer 60.74 62.927 4.402
50 Miles SGT2 91 Honda CRX DX 64.495 62.947 4.422
51 Randy GT2 91 Eagle Talon 67.209 63.176 4.651
52 Caius GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 68.104 63.201 4.675
53 Martin SGT3 88 Honda CRX 65.757 63.390 4.865
54 Keith GT1 94 Acura Integra GSR 66.756 63.552 5.027
55 Sean GT2 04 Dodge SRT4 67.805 63.737 5.212
56 John GT3 91 BMW 325i 68.727 63.779 5.254
57 Nick GT2 97 Eagle Talon T Si AWD 68.021 63.940 5.415
58 Bruce SGT3 93 Honda Civic CX 66.725 64.323 5.798
59 Raj T1 91 Honda Civic CRX Si 71.265 64.424 5.898
60 Steven GT2 04 Subaru Impreza WRX 70.078 65.873 7.348
61 Christopher SGT3 99 Pontiac Trans AM 69.406 66.907 8.382
62 Brad SGT2 98 chevrolet camaro 68.565 66.919 8.394
63 John SGT2 98 Chevrolet Camaro 68.628 66.981 8.456
64 Ana Maria T3 Accent 76.17 67.030 8.505
65 Felix T2 1.7 EL 76.267 68.030 9.505
66 John GT1 90 Volkswagen Jetta 72.537 69.055 10.530
67 Chris IMPR 90 Ford Mustang 69.548 69.548 11.023

[Chris P]

Name First Class Car Best PAX Difference
1 Avi GT1 05 Subaru WRX STi 57.042 54.304 0
2 Chris GT4 87 Honda CRX Si 59.583 54.578 0.274
3 Russ GT1 97 Ford Mustang SVT Co 57.414 54.658 0.354
4 Chris SGT3 91 Ford Mustang 56.799 54.754 0.450
5 George T1 91 Honda Civic CRX Si 60.767 54.933 0.629
6 Kyle SGT3 04 Subaru Sti 57.287 55.225 0.921
7 Luca GT2 00 Subaru Impreza 58.93 55.394 1.090
8 Christian GT1 96 BMW 328is 58.252 55.456 1.152
9 David SGT3 93 Honda Civic CX 57.567 55.495 1.191
10 Dave GT1 97 Chevrolet Camaro 58.385 55.583 1.279
11 James SGT3 89 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II 57.731 55.653 1.349
12 Rob GT2 98 BMW 328is 59.367 55.805 1.501
13 Taylor GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 60.217 55.881 1.577
14 Adam GT3 91 Nissan 240SX 60.447 56.095 1.791
15 Tom GT3 95 Acura Integra LS 60.682 56.313 2.009
16 Mike GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 60.689 56.319 2.015
17 Jack GT1 03 Nissan 350Z 59.222 56.379 2.075
18 Andre GT1 89 Honda Civic 59.303 56.456 2.152
19 Greg GT3 90 Mazda Miata 61.003 56.611 2.307
20 Jason T1 93 Honda Civic CX 62.644 56.630 2.326
21 Andrew GT3 92 Honda Civic VX 61.088 56.690 2.386
22 Guillermo T4 00 Honda Insight 65.385 56.754 2.450
23 Derek SGT3 88 Honda CRX 58.984 56.861 2.557
24 Anthony GT1 89 Honda Civic 59.741 56.873 2.569
25 Rob GT1 87 Chevrolet Players Camaro 59.76 56.892 2.588
26 Richard T1 98 Honda Civic 62.939 56.897 2.593
27 Gerry SGT2 93 Mazda RX-7 58.377 56.976 2.672
28 Serge T4 00 VW Golf 65.743 57.065 2.761
29 John T1 00 Toyota Celica GT 63.17 57.106 2.802
30 Benjamin GT2 98 Acura Integra Type-R 60.759 57.113 2.809
31 Del GT3 02 Ferrari 308 GT4 61.619 57.182 2.878
32 Darren GT2 95 Honda Civic CX 60.87 57.218 2.914
33 Steven SGT1 65 FactoryFive Roadster 57.917 57.222 2.918
34 Klaus SGT1 03 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 58.281 57.582 3.278
35 Rick T2 87 Toyota MR2 64.614 57.636 3.332
36 Shane GT2 95 Acura Integra GS-R 61.608 57.912 3.608
37 Miles SGT2 91 Honda CRX DX 59.355 57.930 3.626
38 Sean GT2 04 Dodge SRT4 62.087 58.362 4.058
39 Raj T1 91 Honda Civic CRX Si 64.701 58.490 4.186
40 Martin SGT3 88 Honda CRX 60.686 58.501 4.197
41 Michael GT1 98 Honda Civic DX 61.573 58.617 4.314
42 Bruce SGT3 93 Honda Civic CX 60.965 58.770 4.466
43 John OPEN 80 Tiga Spec Racer 56.948 58.998 4.694
44 John T4 91 Plymouth Laser 69.007 59.898 5.594
45 Steven GT2 04 Subaru Impreza WRX 64.438 60.572 6.268
46 Bob OPEN 82 Livingston GT4 58.541 60.648 6.344
47 John GT3 91 BMW 325i 65.592 60.869 6.565
48 Brad SGT2 98 chevrolet camaro 62.436 60.938 6.634
49 John SGT2 98 Chevrolet Camaro 62.438 60.939 6.636
50 Howie T1 81 Nissan 280ZX 67.498 61.018 6.714
51 Rob GT3 02 Mazda Miata 66.016 61.263 6.959
52 Felix T2 04 Acura 1.7 EL 69.189 61.717 7.413
53 Stan GT2 94 Chevrolet Camaro 65.824 61.875 7.571
54 Ana Maria T3 01 Hyundai Accent 70.495 62.036 7.732
55 Brad SGT1 98 Acura Integra type r 63.868 63.102 8.798
56 William SGT3 96 Chevrolet Corvette 67.188 64.769 10.465
57 Nikita GT1 00 Acura Integra 68.439 65.154 10.850
58 Eva SGT1 03 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 68.364 67.544 13.240

[gatherer]

I must drive faster....

[G-ForceJunkie]

I must drive faster....
I concur for me as well

[Rick S]

I would also like to state in a similar fashion that the speed of my driving must increase.

[thgear]

for event # 3 it says that i need to get a 61 having driven a 70... thats flipping crazyy!!

i still dont get it... lol, maybe i never will. :rolleyes:

[Chris P]

let me explian the numbers a little


The 1st number is your lap time. The 2nd number is your lap time AFTER PAX. The 3rd number is the difference between your after PAX and the overall event PAX leader. Therefore, for Serge to be first overall in Event 3 PAX comparison he would have needed a REAL laptime of atleast 67.424 or 3.177 secounds quicker

[thgear]

under event # 3 this is what it says for me


25 Serge T4 00 VW Golf 70.601 61.282 2.757

where do u gather the 67.424 from again?

so what you are saying, those people that are paxed, are therefore compared to everyone else AS IF everyone was being compared on a pax value (even tho SUCH is not the case)

and from what i assume, you ahve them ranked out by the 3rd number?

[gatherer]

under event # 3 this is what it says for me


25 Serge T4 00 VW Golf 70.601 61.282 2.757

where do u gather the 67.424 from again?

so what you are saying, those people that are paxed, are therefore compared to everyone else AS IF everyone was being compared on a pax value (even tho SUCH is not the case)

and from what i assume, you ahve them ranked out by the 3rd number?

dude it's simple

take 61.282 subtract the 2.757 you are away fromt he PAX leader and then divide by the PAX for your Class

simpler way:

take the PAX leader's PAXed time and Divide by your Classes PAX factor ... thats how fast you need to go in your class to be on even ground with the PAAX leader... subtract 0.001 seconds from that you become the PAX leader for the event.

(I'm not going to do the math to tell you what the numbers are because I'm too lazy and Krispy's numbers look right)

[gatherer]

and they are ranked by teh second number

[thgear]

thx Jason, i get his graph now :)


here this is what i dont quite get

TOURING 2 CLASS
This class was slower then class T3. Points are based on the best time of T3
1 David Evans OMSC 93 Suzuki Swift GTi Kumho 87.882 ( 97.950) 99.101
2 Rick Arbour OMSC 87 Toyota MR2 Yokohama 88.749 ( 97.275) 98.132
3 Felix Ng N TAC 04 Acura 1.7 EL Yokohama 92.809 ( 92.837) 93.840

TOURING 3 CLASS
This small class gets full points for propositioning T2
1 Peter Clifford TAC 90 Hyundai Accent Yokohama 87.092 ( 98.931) 100.000

TOURING 4 CLASS
This small class was scored based on Event PAX Average 73.285 divided by the PAX factor .86
1 Serge Guschin N TAC 00 Volkswagen Golf Toyo 88.722 ( 95.508) 96.047


check it, Peter propositions T2, and they get graded as if he was in T2 and being the leader

now, rick, running an 88.749 gets 98.132 points, while pax gives me 96.047 points even tho i was faster than Rick at 88.722 ??

~_~ is that just how it is? a technicality thats simply too hard to weed out? or??

[gatherer]

HUH...???

in order to Proposition a class and get more points then them you have to proposition the class LEADER...

dude your thinking too much.... seriously don't worry about PAX or Propositioning or anything like that just get out tehre and drive... worry about that stuff in your second year.

[gatherer]

I think my reply is only going to confuse you more so I'll restate it...

TOURING 2 has a full class their points are based on the class leader which in this case is the TOURING 3 driver since TOURING 3 class leader propositioned TOURING 2 Class leader

your points in TOURING 4 are based on PAX since you have a underfilled class and didn't proposition any CLASS LEADERS.

does this make more sense...?

[thgear]

ohh i'm having plenty of fun

but curious minds like to know :)

plus ive been out of school for almost 3 months now!! Having been doing Stats and Stats 2 for the previous 8 months my mind is hungry for mathematical proofs :cool: , yes i'm a nerd :D

[thgear]

I think my reply is only going to confuse you more so I'll restate it...

TOURING 2 has a full class their points are based on the class leader which in this case is the TOURING 3 driver since TOURING 3 class leader propositioned TOURING 2 Class leader

your points in TOURING 4 are based on PAX since you have a underfilled class and didn't proposition any CLASS LEADERS.

does this make more sense...?

no it makes perfect sense

but is it... and shit i dont want to say the f word...


fair?? (here we go!!)

what i'm trying to say is that i dont see how being in a lower class, i get LESS points than a guy (Rick, MR2) in a HIGHER class who ran SLOWER than me....

thats what i dont quite get.

[gatherer]

want a math problem figure out how 1 is equal to 2 was shown to me for the first day of College math I had....

(that should baffle you)

[gatherer]

you get less points because you are scored Differently and even though you were faster then some guy in some higher class doesn't mean you scored better... you should have gone faster and beaten the TOURING 2 class leader :p

Propositioning for full points is easier then Beating PAX for full points

Also your car is not fully prepped for TOURING 4. PAX is based on best car prep for that class... all the free mods you can do, do them, all the Points you can use, use them.

[Chris P]

i think he gets it Jason. His point was that the T2 driver who was slower then the T4 driver gets more points even though the T2 car should have been quicker. So shouldn't the T4 driver recieve credit for being faster then a car 2 classes ahead?

Hmmmm, Therefore, if the CCC went ahead and combined all of the T family underfilled classes he would have actually had a higher point score. Perhaps there is marrit to doing this afterall. It was discussed last winter however quashed due to T family driver disagreement.

Something to think about for the offseason i suppose.

[Chris P]

PS, you guys type to much. Get girlfriends

[thgear]

Also your car is not fully prepped for TOURING 4. PAX is based on best car prep for that class... all the free mods you can do, do them, all the Points you can use, use them.

here is the nitpick then... how many people have ran fully prepped T5, T4, T3 cars in the past??

considering i set the track record for both events 3 and 4 for the T4 class... it begs the question that shouldnt then any pax for the T4 class be based of me??

:confused: :confused:

perhaps what crispy said, have a pax rating for each individual class families? T, GT and SGT ???

unfortunetly i have no clue how it was done over the years and what sort of discusions were done but i would really like to have some say in this if anything ever comes about :D

[thgear]

PS, you guys type to much. Get girlfriends

mine wont return my calls, hence i'm typing ;)

[gatherer]

I'm at work .. how is a girlfriend going to help me here.... ohhh wait I get it never mind point taken

[Chris P]

h

perhaps what crispy said, have a pax rating for each individual class families? T, GT and SGT ???

unfortunetly i have no clue how it was done over the years and what sort of discusions were done but i would really like to have some say in this if anything ever comes about

I don't think that is what i said.......... :confused:


Anyway, Serge, we have a Rules Workshop at the end of the season where you can file any suggustions formally. Start making that list, but please not too long, ok? ;)

[thgear]

i'll keep it to 400 pages i swear :eek:

[Rick S]

Serge, maybe what would work better for you then would be to drive your car in T2 or T3, even though it's a T4 car. That way when you don't have a full class you don't have to worry about getting PAXed.

Adam's running in a higher class than he should be, but that's to beat Taylor. Hutchison is full of spite, it's unhealthy.

OR, even better, you could prep your car for T2 and win the class, since you're doing so well from two classes down.

And Krispy, I can't afford a girlfriend, Solo 1 is expensive enough for me.

[Dave]

psssst, Rick, it's actually possible to find a girlfriend for free. Those "dating" agencies aren't really what you seem to think they are...

BTW, this thread is useless without pr0n.

[Rick S]

Wanna give us a little hairy bald man pron, Dave?

[Taylor]

Actually Serge, the point I believe you're trying to make, or confusion you have here, is fairly similar to issues I've had with underfilled classes and pax for quite some time.

Basically in Solo 2 in my 2nd and 3rd year I ran a car with a consistently underfilled class... Porsche 911's, Ferrari 360's and Dodge Vipers aren't overly prevalent in AutoX. :) The pax time required to get full points was absolutely ridiculous (i.e. unattainable) however I was actually faster than the quickest guy in a filled class above me, but not RIGHT above me.

For instance... I was in ASC (a stock class), the next class up (A/SS) was quicker than me, however the class above them (AMOD) was not. Yet, I did not score full points. Very disappointing considering I was actually tied for the overall lead that year.

This is why overall standings are generally meaningless to people who know they're meaningless. You could have a decent driver and 2 shitty ones in one class, the decent driver wins all the events, gets full points, takes overall.. however a really good driver in a very competitive class will likely trade events with other class drivers and MAYBE eek out a class win, but with all the bruises from his other competitiors, not place anywere remotely "respectable" in overall.

Now that said.. I'll happily take an overall championship title... but the one I did take, I don't put a whole lot of stock in... I just didn't have any real competition, I rolled over my class. So I made goals outside of class wins at that point, trying for FTD or to beat guys in much quicker modified cars.

I will say though since Pax is this number that's supposed to put all on an equal playing field, I'm pleased to see my name much higher this year than it would have been in past years (ugh).

[Dave]

why Rick, adding to your collection? You sick little monkey... :p

[Rick S]

Hey, you can never have enough hairy man porn.

[thgear]

i would gladly move up a class

once i rob a bank :eek:

this whole "maximization" thing is freaking me out, like i would want to throw on a set of springs, but since its 4 pips regardless i might as well get some 600 pound springs... but thats a custom order and thats $$$ :(

ahh hell maybe i'll throw some strut bars on and move up a class anyway :)

gotta think it through.

[Taylor]

Best thing you can do is wheels and tires.. they're free...well in terms of PIPs (assuming they don't extend past the fender lip).

Upper strut bars don't do a heck of a lot (hence why they're free once you've moved up a class).

In rough order I'd say the general rule is:

- Tires (Free) (Wider First, Profile Second)
- Wheels (Free) (Wider first, Lighter Second)
- Suspension (Coilovers or (Springs, Struts), then Swaybars)
- Brake Pads (Free)
- Brake System (Free)
- Interior Tearout
- Engine
- Other Lightening (unless you have a fat car like a BMW or something where lightening may be better than Engine Mods depending on pips).
- Other Crap (bars, bushings, etc)

That's on a performance gauge. It may not make class competitive sense to do some things before others. And of course the wallet always comes into play at some point too.

[thgear]

i have a set of koni's that are gonna go on once my various stock bushing/bolts replacement comes in the mail

that should put me smack right at 44.8, and i think i'll ride it out for this season.

next season.. .whoo boy :D

springs with drop spindles to bump me up into T3

then i get free exhaust, intake and clutch upgrade (pip)

but yeah, thats like 2 grand right there for parts :eek:

[Guillermo]

i have a set of koni's that are gonna go on once my various stock bushing/bolts replacement comes in the mail

that should put me smack right at 44.8, and i think i'll ride it out for this season.

I'm not going to argue about your decisions :D

[thgear]

;)

well maybe a rear sway is the better way to go, but my shocks are blown :( , why bother replacing them with stock ones if i'm gonna be putting in aftermarket ones in the future anyway

[Carguy]

;)

well maybe a rear sway is the better way to go, but my shocks are blown :( , why bother replacing them with stock ones if i'm gonna be putting in aftermarket ones in the future anyway

Sway bars will only be effective in controlling body roll. Shocks and springs help control body roll as well as bump and rebound. I would consider swaybars only as a means of fine tuning body roll after you select springs and shocks. Having said that, you might want to consider saving up for coilovers instead of phasing in your shock and spring mods. Seperate spring/shock combinations will "cost" you the same pips as full coilovers. The advantage of coilovers is that the springs are matched to the shocks and they will maximize your pip "expenditure" by making you more competitive within the class. If you decide on seperate springs and shocks try to get adjustable shocks and linear rate springs, or better yet coilover sleeves rather than progressive rate springs. There are other advantages to full coilovers such as more shock firmness settings (typically 12 or more), camber adjustment (if upper mounts are included), ride height adjustment and lighter weight. Good luck.

[thgear]

here is the problem

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1363022

long story short, lowering MK4 VW's (not including the R32) by any amount, even if the springs are stiffer, is BAD

the only time it would not be bad, is if you lower the car, and somehow make it so that it has ZERO body roll... quite possible, but also undrivable on the streets.

so, my options include a shock/spring combo from a company known as Shine Racing, however the kit that they sell is primarily a compromise between comfort and performance, it raises the front of the car by about 0.5" and i belive have rates of 250 front and like 300 back, something along those lines

however a new product is on the market, suprisingly by a canadian manufacturer, and it is a aftermaker spindle that has the control arm connector point 2" lower than stock (drop spindles)

this effectivly elimiantes the bad geometry associated with MK4 VW's that is discussed in grotesque detail in the above mentioned link.

this spindle essentialy opens up doors for suspension options other than Shine's

my plan is for custom springs somewhere in the 600 lb range, exact number to be determined when i actualy get around to doing it and actualy use a scientific method to derive my own desired spring rates, but thats money.

since bothering with the springs is pointless unless you have the spindles to go along with them, i figure i'm gonna need atleast 1200 for the whole thing, plus labour, cuz i'm still a pussy when it comes to doing all this stuff myself, the last thing i want is for my wheel to fall out when i'm driving on the freeway :eek:

considering R comp tires with light wheels is a first priority ANYWAY... my car wont see a spring upgrade till next year for sure...

so yeah... thanks for all your suggestions but i have (IMO anyway :D ) a solid gameplan in my head

the only obstacle being money!

[B18C5]

Oh d00d! That's UGLY! What the hell were they thinking when they designed that? I didn't read the whole thread, but basically what they're saying is the car gains more negative camber until 2" of compression, after which the curve switches to where at 7" you're positive? Nasty nasty nasty.

I see your predicament. But if you get adjustable perch coilovers you can run the car at stock height and use whatever spring rate you want. Then when you can afford the spindles you can keep things the way they are but then just lower the car.

It's a dirty design, but you can still work around it.

[thgear]

dirty is an understatement

//terminal understeer for the masses//

they figure that if one wants a vw/audi race car thats what the TT is for :mad:

ahh well, thank god for the aftermarket!

oh and its more like

at STOCK, youo have 0 camber

you have about 1" compression where you more or less maintain 0 camber

then you go into POSITIVE

:mad:

all those poor souls that lower their MK4's, percieve better handling characteristics, because the car actualy rolls less and all that other good stuff, when in fact the contact patch is decreased significantly and the ultimate handling characteristics are decreased

i'm pretty confident that if i go up against Jack Seary's GTI on the same tires that i should pull greater G's on a skid pad

its all about perception of control vs actual control :o

so feel free to laugh at any VW thats slammed to the ground with the driver proclaiming that he/she has //insane handling yo!!//

[Carguy]

I see... Cool. In that case I'd get a car with a real suspension... Say something JDM... ;)

[thgear]

i will

once i finish university and get a real job :p

besides, why get a car thats too much for the driver ;)

plus i figure if i do get a car, its gonna be a real car, non of this civic stuff ;) (no beef! i actualy have a civic in my garage that my dad rides on :o )

its either gonna be a rotary or inline-6 and RWD...

[Carguy]

its either gonna be a rotary or inline-6 and RWD...

Another RWD convert! Welcome to the dark side... :evil grin

[Dave Barker]

[QUOTE=Chris P]This is more for shits and giggles then anything else.


Speaking of the above, did anyone notice that 3 of the 4 pax winners come from GT1? As long as we keep beating up on each other, I doubt the overall winner will ever come from this class. OTOH it is a lot of fun and I can't afford a girlfriend. (Marriage is grand but divorce is about 100 grand.)