Montreal instead of Ottawa

[soloZ]

Ok so what are all of the details for this event?

[craig]

From the volume of organizational e-mail I was c.c.'d on last week, Chuck and company are working furiously to iron all the little details. Look for something official soon.

Basically, PMG is an old military base that evolved into Transport Canada's vehicle research facility, and was quasi-privatized (or something like that). http://www.pmgtest.com The site is perhaps best known for where "Driven," everyone's favourite racing movie :rolleyes:, was shot. The main feature of PMG is a four mile (6.4km) high-speed oval - the kind you see on Japanese tuner videos. The oval will not be used for Solo2 ;). The "Dynamic test area" will be used for Solo2. This is 18 football fields-worth of perfectly flat asphalt with a constant coefficient of friction. V710's love the surface :eek:. You will not find this anywhere else in Canada, and I only know of one place in the US (TRC in Ohio).

A bunch from MCO were there in June (serious heat) - here are some pics: http://www.mco.org/cms/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=4080 The regional event will be held together with Club Autosport des Laurentides - besides folks from Montreal, there will be people coming five hours the other way - Quebec city - just to run against the best in Ontario. All the fast folks in CADL will be there - Carl Wener just won at the last SCCA National Tour stop, and he's pumped for this event.

You won't want to miss this one.

Some notes:
-Because of all the weird secret stuff that happens at the facility, e.g., crash-testing of manufacturer's prototypes, security will be a novel experience compared to the usual Solo2. This is the kind of facility that will arrest you if you wander around. Security will be everywhere. You will be escorted from the gate to the Solo2 area, and back out. (Registration will probably be setup in the visitor parking lot before the main gate.)
-No pets. I'm not sure about children.
-Leaky cars. MCO and CADL have to put up a huge damage retainer (and pay a huge rental fee). Leaks onto the pavement mean the clubs lose big bucks. (Yes, PMG will check afterwards.) I bring some cardboard to park on, and others will park partially on the grass. The treasurers of both clubs will appreciate your cooperation. I'm sure the supps will go into this in more detail.
- Cops. Local police WILL set radar up on the roads going into and around the facility. I have been going to PMG for over 10 years, and there is always at least one radar as soon as the locals realize what is going on.

This is going to be an awesome event. See you there!

[Tony Kloosterma]

I was fortunate enough to compete at PMG in 2004. Its an awesome faciltiy. If you had a choice to only do one more event this year, make sure you do this one......it ssimply spectactular.

Quebec uses diff classing systems then us. I believe the plan is to have 2 seperate registartion tables, for Ont and quebec, because it is our regional event we will use our numbers 0-199, quebec will run 200 and above.
We will use 2 timing systems so there is no confusion over results.

bring stuff to jack your car up on, sheets of wood something. Please do not damage the pavement. bring tarps.
They will run a BBq at the event, the town of Blainville has a ramada inn and i found rooms at 85 a night, the hotel is literally blocks away from the facility. Plan on a HUGE party saturday night

This is a must go to event.

Tony

[StewPiddass]

I really don't want to drive that far... but I don't think we can afford to pass this one up.

[Tony Kloosterma]

http://reshotels.funtastik.com/h/hotelAvail.do
$85 cdn a night plus 3.75 service fee.
its literally a couple blocks formt eh facility.

This is the cheapest rate you will find.

Tony

[gatherer]

I'd love to go but I happen to be in regina that weekend this sucks

[Tashko]

Is the date August 14th?

[Tony Kloosterma]

yes its the 14th
the sunday

Tony

[Marsh]

So is this going to be some kind of double header? Frankly I'd just as soon drive down Sat and have a relaxed travel day.

[Tony Kloosterma]

no double header
on sunday both quebec and ontario will run on the same coourse , same day, different scoring
so, yes you can relax marsh.
I'm leaving around 900 or 1000 from london

[sjd]

i found rooms at 85 a night, the hotel is literally blocks away from the facility.Tony

Was that for a double room? Your link gave me an error message when I clicked on it.

[thekid]

Was that for a double room? Your link gave me an error message when I clicked on it.

ditto, and when i found it my own way, the cheapest room i can find at that hotel is $99

[superdave]

-Leaky cars. MCO and CADL have to put up a huge damage retainer (and pay a huge rental fee). Leaks onto the pavement mean the clubs lose big bucks. (Yes, PMG will check afterwards.) I bring some cardboard to park on, and others will park partially on the grass. The treasurers of both clubs will appreciate your cooperation. I'm sure the supps will go into this in more detail.


Does this mean during tech inspection they aren't to strict about leaks? I need to know before I drive 6 or 7 hours for an event I won't be allowed to participate in ;) (BTW I'm more than willing to put a piece of cardboard under my car while its parked)

[AlienDNA]

I'd love to go but I happen to be in regina that weekend this sucks

Hey, being in Regina *ANY* weekend sucks. ;)

[craig]

In Blainville, you have the Ramada: http://www.ramadablainville.com/ $85 is the government rate; $94.05 AAA/AARP rate; $99 "Best available," all double occupancy. It is a pretty nice hotel; your basic Ramada.

Also, for about half the price of the Ramada, and about a block further away up the main drag, there is the Motel Boisé, 1420 boulevard du Curé-Labelle, Blainville, Québec, Canada, J7C 2P2 Telephone (450) 435-5547 I have never been to, or even seen, the Boisé; it may be scary, it may be okay, I have no idea. I guess it depends on how much "adventure" you want.

The above two are within Blainville, i.e., a few minutes drive to PMG. If you want to be within a half-hour/45 minutes, there are lots of places - and lots of B&B's as well.

If I was coming from TO, I'd drive up fairly early Saturday, stay in Montréal/Montréal-Nord/Laval, wander around Montréal Saturday night, and head up to Blainville Sunday AM. PMG is less than 10 km from the Blainville exit on the 15 (major northbound highway)

Also, if you don't have a trailer, consider the Montréal hostel - cheap for the location, neat, downtown, they have some private rooms, and you don't have to be a "youth" to stay in hostels anymore (38 minutes away from PMG according to Mapquest). http://www.hostellingmontreal.com/ Only drawback is you park in a public lot across the street, and the hostel will be busy (i.e., if you want to go to bed early in peace and quiet, stay out of downtown Montréal on a Saturday night! :D )

Hope this helps!

[94redcivic]

Nice to see there’s already some interest in the event. Thanks Craig and Tony for fielding some questions. Here’s some answer others:

How did we end up organizing an Ontario regional event in Quebec?
Both the CADL and the MCO lost their lots for the events in August. Neither club was willing to take the chance of renting PMG on their own so we decided to pool our resources and organize a very big, very special event.

What’s the cost?
$40

How many runs will we get?
Between 4-6.

What kind of course can we expect?
Fast, really fast, really really fast!

So this is an Ontario Regional AND CADL event? How does that work?
There will be two registration tables setup, CADL and Ontario Regional, at the entry for the facility. Upon arrival you check in at the Ontario Regional table and pay for the event.

We’re running together but scoring separately (The CADL group will run first, followed by the regional group to make one large run group). We’ll be running between 4-6 heats; marshal duty will be directly after your run regardless of which group is on track. Everyone gets to keep their series number. All times for both groups will be posted on whiteboards so everyone can compare times.

How many competitors are we expecting?
The CADL usually gets between 90-130 competitors at PMG events. Add all the guys coming from the MCO and the Regional series and we’re expecting 150-200 drivers in total!

What’s the deal with PMG security and restrictions?
No animals allowed.
Minimum age is 18 years old.
No pictures of crashed cars and facilities allowed. (You CAN take pictures of the event)
Speed is limited to 40 kph on access roads on the site.
A piece of wood is required under jacks when lifting cars.
Access in and out of the site is strictly restricted to specific time periods by PMG/CADL staff.

I’m coming from Toronto. How much further is the drive to PMG compared to the Corel Center?
It’s an extra 1.25hrs – 1.5hrs.

I plan on staying with friends/ family in the Ottawa area to save $. Will there be a group from Ottawa leaving for the event Sunday Morning?
Yes, and you’re welcome to join the convoy.

Is PMG as good as everyone says?
It’s the best lot in eastern Canada for a Solo II. There may be bigger lots being used, although I doubt it, but nothing comes close to the pavement conditions and constancy of grip found at this facility!

Both the CADL and the MCO are known for running excellent events…ok, maybe our Pro Solo stunk...but or Regional rocked! We hope you’ll join us for what’s sure to be a very special event!

[craig]

Does this mean during tech inspection they aren't to strict about leaks? I need to know before I drive 6 or 7 hours for an event I won't be allowed to participate in ;) (BTW I'm more than willing to put a piece of cardboard under my car while its parked)

Er, it isn't tech inspection, it is the facility. This isn't a parking lot, this is asphalt meant to be perfect over a huge area. (If it rains, you'll see exactly how level it is.)

Some history:
It used to be everything was normal. However, when "Driven" was filmed, a vehicle related to the production dumped oil (or something) over the Dynamic test area that we are using for Solo2. That meant the entire surface had to be re-paved. For a while after that, they (PMG) didn't allow any clubs to use the facility. Eventually they did allow clubs, but PMG security would check each car in the visitor parking lot. This made things interesting in the Porsche club, because air-cooled 911's leak. I was at an event in 2001 where every older /scruffier car was scrutinized heavily by security, and some were turned away. Not a good scene. Sanity seems to have returned, but the clubs do have to put up a deposit, and a club lost their deposit last year for oil leaks.

BTW, this goes for any fluids - trans oil, diff oil, power steering fluid, rad fluid, etc. Also jack stands or jacks when you're parked - no divots, please.

Essentially, the clubs are at the whim of whoever is in security that day. If security want to be real a*sholes (or someone gives them a reason to), then they have the power to be real a*sholes. The clubs don't want to be a*sholes either, but losing thousands of dollars in a deposit sucks as well.

Anyhow, that's just my opinion, not official. I am not an organizer. If I were you, once the flyer is out, I'd get in touch with the organizers with the specifics of your situation.

[Tony Kloosterma]

I'll ask this question for Trung as I know this is going to pose an issue. he and his wife and child plan to come to the event, (both compete in the Ontario Regional series) and leave directly from there to go to Red Deer for the Nationals with me. Age restricition is 18, can an exception be made for thier child? (Mary-anne is very cute and well behaved) We can always lock her in my trailer if that helps........close the rear door and put up a child proof gate...lol


Thanks

Tony

[13inches]

What time is registration? :D

[Tony Kloosterma]

smartass.......
I guess we'll have to ask cadl and mco to see when we can get into pmg.


Tony

[94redcivic]

I'll ask this question for Trung as I know this is going to pose an issue. he and his wife and child plan to come to the event, (both compete in the Ontario Regional series) and leave directly from there to go to Red Deer for the Nationals with me. Age restricition is 18, can an exception be made for thier child? (Mary-anne is very cute and well behaved) We can always lock her in my trailer if that helps........close the rear door and put up a child proof gate...lol


Thanks

Tony

Sorry Tony but there’s no flexibility on the age restriction. I can check with the CADL guys about possible day care.

[94redcivic]

What time is registration? :D

Registration opens: 7:00 am
Tech opens: 8:00 am
Registration closes: 9:00 am
Drivers' Meeting: 9:30 am
First Run: 10:00 am
End of Event: 16:00 pm

[soloZ]

I'll ask this question for Trung as I know this is going to pose an issue. he and his wife and child plan to come to the event, (both compete in the Ontario Regional series) and leave directly from there to go to Red Deer for the Nationals with me. Age restricition is 18, can an exception be made for thier child? (Mary-anne is very cute and well behaved) We can always lock her in my trailer if that helps........close the rear door and put up a child proof gate...lol


Thanks

Tony


If my wife comes which is more then likly(gonna go to Quebec City[somewhat of a honeymoon]) Mary-anne will have someone to throw stuff at hehe :D

[Slowpoke]

Wow. That's a long drive for four runs, and waiting for 150 to 200 cars between them. Well, it's been a while since I've seen Montreal. (20 years) I'm sure that some things have changed and that it's worth a Saturday there.

Don't consider this an official protest, but I don't think that events in another province should be counted as part of the Ontario regional schedule if they weren't on there when we registered for the series. I think that it's a great opportunity for anyone serious enough to drive that far and I don't want my fellow racers to lose that opportunity.

I wonder what we would think though if it was just a small lot like Duoro. We'd probably all want it scrubbed from the official standings.

On the other hand, I think that MOntreal is a faster drive than North Bay, and definitely closer than Thunder Bay, so maybe being in a different province isn't so bad. Part of racing in the big series I suppose! ;)

So why don't we start adding Detroit events then? :eek:

[Tony Kloosterma]

I knew this would come up.
you count 6 of 10 events, choose the events you attend. MCO is running the event, they are an Ontario affiliated club. they lost thier lot and have offered you the best facility in canada. you have to drive 7 hours instead of 5.5......its a no brainer...

Tony

[gatherer]

we have it good here .... even if you have to drive 7 hours because the montreal event is one of the only 6 you can make.. I'd say do it...

have a look at WCMA's regional series... whats WCMA??? it's the ASN region that covers Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. imagine the 10 to 11 hour drive from Winnipeg to edmonton for one regional event.. then imagine doing it another weekend to hit up calgary.. or the drive to saskatoon or Regina...

I personally won't be at this event because it was one I had plans to be elsewhere for anyways. if I wasn't doing one lap of canada I'd be right there. f your regionally registered and you had orginally planed to attend Ottawa there really is no reason not to attend Montreal instead...Think of it this way there will probably be less regionally registered competitors there since it is so far away (fromt he centre of the universe, Toronto) so go have a good time and relish the fact that you might just get 95 points and qualify for the shoot out just because someone else is too damn chicken to go play on the big lot. or maybe your just too damn chicken?

[sjd]

maybe your just too damn chicken?

Calling someone chicken because they won't make a 7 hour drive is hardly fair. And of course you would be there were you in the province, you're at everything. Some of us have wives/girlfriends/families to consider. I'm not sure if I'm going myself or not, it sounds like a great lot but it is a far drive. I'm not complaining they moved lots, I just don't know if it's worth going for me.

[miataboi]

Calling someone chicken because they won't make a 7 hour drive is hardly fair. And of course you would be there were you in the province, you're at everything. Some of us have wives/girlfriends/families to consider. I'm not sure if I'm going myself or not, it sounds like a great lot but it is a far drive. I'm not complaining they moved lots, I just don't know if it's worth going for me.

CHICKEN!

[sjd]

CHICKEN!

lol. I knew that was coming.

[gatherer]

what I said .. in my very blunt way of posting it...

is if you had planned to go to Ottawa then there should be no reason why you can't just go to PMG.

the only excuses that I see would be:

1) my car leaks like it's trying to give away it's fliuds... (well it really shouldn't even at our other events that is just inconsiderate of those that run after you)

2) I have kids/family that now can't come because they are under 18... this can't be avoided... so in the case of Trung and Anna's Daughter or my younger brother...this applies... it's an extra monkey wrench


to tell you the truth I thought about cutting out the Winnipeg and Regina events in favour of the PMG event. but then I'd have to figure out somethig for my brother to do .. and since this is a trip WITH him that doesn't seem to fair to him. so I left my schedule as is. I really wish I could be there. This event will be a very interesting one.

Anyways if Ottawa was on the calender for you and you don't go I guess your the one missing out.

[Robin2]

Far? if this one road trip you per year do then no biggie... what's to complain about?

I was at COMP on Sunday and drove back to Orleans (east of Ottawa) (4.5hr drive)... For most events, it's advantageous if you live in the GTA area as most events are close enough to drive to and back the same day.....

I plan on doing TAC (on 30th) and double header in late august.... So doing the series, and driving 3-5 hours for 5-6 runs is normal in my case.... cause I live in Ottawa.....

As Jason said, if you were planning on doing the event in Ottawa what's the big deal then..... it's not much further away....

This is my home event and I can't make it! (other plans already on that weekend)....

Robin

[superdave]

ONTARIO regional series. It's not Ontario and maybe another province if something gets screwed up regional series. Sorry I like playing the devils advocate ;)


Regarding the leak issue. My car leaks a few drips, its not like I lay oil on the track. :rolleyes: I don' think my car leaks enough to be turned away, but theres no ****in way i'm driving 7 hours to find out that I have to go the **** home.

[Robin2]

To each his own..... it's going to be a really good event..... At COMP, while talking to some other drivers, I got the feeling most wanted to go.....

Obviously not everyone lives in TO but where are you getting 7hrs away? Blainville is about 120kms more of a drive than if you were heading to Ottawa....

Toronto to Blainville is 550kms.... even London is 743kms.... (according to google).

Like Tony said, 6 events out 10 make the year for the championship....

Robin

[superdave]

To each his own..... it's going to be a really good event..... At COMP, while talking to some other drivers, I got the feeling most wanted to go.....

Obviously not everyone lives in TO but where are you getting 7hrs away? Blainville is about 120kms more of a drive than if you were heading to Ottawa....

Toronto to Blainville is 550kms.... even London is 743kms.... (according to google).

Like Tony said, 6 events out 10 make the year for the championship....

Robin

once again: ONTARIO

I live in Paris. It might be a 6 hour drive if I don't hit any traffic, but honestly, what are the chances of that? I'd say 7 hours is a good estimate unless I drive overnight.

I would do the drive if I could be assured my car would be allowed to compete, but like I said before, why should I risk driving 7 hours, just to drive another 7 hours home if they turn me away. Sounds good, waste a whole day driving pointlessly and $100+ to not even compete. YAY good ****ing idea. :rolleyes:

[Robin2]

Here's a pic from the CADL/MCO solo2 event on June 5th, 05

http://photos.imageevent.com/digi_tale/2005solo2/5juin/large/6Juin2005%20_225_.JPG

more pics:
http://imageevent.com/digi_tale/2005solo2/5juin

http://www.stevepereira.com/photo/cadl/060505/cars/

[Tony Kloosterma]

Dave, do every lot a favour and fix the oil leak.


If you would go to ottawa then you could go to blainville.

I suppose if the event was in thunder bay you would bitch too and its in Ontario

Tony

[gatherer]

i'd go to a thunder bay regional

[superdave]

Dave, do every lot a favour and fix the oil leak.


If you would go to ottawa then you could go to blainville.

I suppose if the event was in thunder bay you would bitch too and its in Ontario

Tony

Tony,

It leaks like 2 drops a day. I'm sorry I'm not in a financial position nor have the time to pull my car apart to fix this issue. I race my daily driver unlike some and can't have my car out of commision... a 100km bike ride one way to work might be a little much for me. I know I may look like I have the body of a world class athlete but looks can be deceiving. ;)

The drive doesn't bother me. Its the possibility of a pointless 14 hour drive that bothers me. What don't you get about that? I wouldn't care if it was 14 hours one way if I could be guaranteed to compete. I just want to get a clearcut answer ahead of time on weather or not I can compete with my subpar old pos car. Give me a break I'm a kid who wants to race and compete legally. Shoot me.

The ontario thing is just me playing devils advocate. Wasn't being all that serious about it. What can I say I'm a shit disturber and internet thug. :D

[Tony Kloosterma]

first time you mentioned 2 drops
it should be okay

Tony

[Marsh]

Far? if this one road trip you per year do then no biggie... what's to complain about?

I was at COMP on Sunday and drove back to Orleans (east of Ottawa) (4.5hr drive)... For most events, it's advantageous if you live in the GTA area as most events are close enough to drive to and back the same day.....

I plan on doing TAC (on 30th) and double header in late august.... So doing the series, and driving 3-5 hours for 5-6 runs is normal in my case.... cause I live in Ottawa.....

As Jason said, if you were planning on doing the event in Ottawa what's the big deal then..... it's not much further away....

This is my home event and I can't make it! (other plans already on that weekend)....

Robin

Robin, it's great to see that someone from east of TO is doing the events. It shows real dedication.

But that said, this kind of dedication is normal for people from outside of TO. WOSCA, MCO, TLMC, PMSC, St. LAC (and a few others I'mn sure I'm forgetting) have members from far and wide. I know for a fact that WOSCA has members that live over 1hr from our slalom venue in 3 of the 4 compass directions. We are used to driving to events. Many are also used to regularly driving to the city simply to go shopping. So travelling a couple of hours to do what you love is no big deal. People from TO, on the other hand, don't have to drive anywhere further than their daily commute. They have little to no reason to ever leave the greater Toronto area, and thus their world ends anywhere more than 1hr from the CN tower. WOSCA has seen it time and time again. Virtually nobody from TO will drive more than 2 hours for a regional. We got a venue 30 minutes closer to TO than London and our club event turnouts tripled over night.

This is the great weekness of the Ontario region. The population is so TO centric, that you can do virtually nothing unless you completely pander to TO competitors. I don't blame the individual people from TO, it's just frustrating being an outsider all the time. Of the 10 events on the tour, 6 (more than half) are 3 hours or more from WOSCA's center of operations. The rest are at least 1.5 hrs, except for our own event of course, yet we always have some of the biggest club turnouts on the circuit (excluding for SPDA, which really isn't a geographical club).

[Robin2]

Very true Marshall.... GTA people are very very lucky to have so many events (club events and regionals) so close.... I'm envious about that....

[Gen1GT]

I'm with Dave. Why the hell is there an CASC-ONTARIO REGION event in Québec? I don't care how nice the track surface is. I was going to stay with one of the Ottawa Protege Owners members in Ottawa. So now I have to waste my day Saturday driving up to Montréal so I can spend $100 on a hotel, then drive 7 hours back Sunday evening.

Why are we two the only ones who find this absolutely obsurd? Who OK'd this event, and on what level did it appear to make sense? I'm sick of driving 2 hours to events, let alone 7.

And now every registrant with a family, or possibly any driver under 18 can't attend, or has to make special arrangements.

And of course, all you guys who have $50,000 cars with $50,000 of work done to them can obviously afford to take mini-vacations whenever you want...

...that being said, I'll still be there. :p

[msix]

I'm with Dave. Why the hell is there an CASC-ONTARIO REGION event in Québec? I don't care how nice the track surface is. I was going to stay with one of the Ottawa Protege Owners members in Ottawa. So now I have to waste my day Saturday driving up to Montréal so I can spend $100 on a hotel, then drive 7 hours back Sunday evening.

Why are we two the only ones who find this absolutely obsurd? Who OK'd this event, and on what level did it appear to make sense? I'm sick of driving 2 hours to events, let alone 7.

And now every registrant with a family, or possibly any driver under 18 can't attend, or has to make special arrangements.

And of course, all you guys who have $50,000 cars with $50,000 of work done to them can obviously afford to take mini-vacations whenever you want...

...that being said, I'll still be there. :p

You can still see your Ottawa friends on Saturday (as planned), stay there over night and join the MCO convoy early Sunday morning to go to PMG.

Wanna buy me a coffee at Timmies on sunday morning, I just saved you a hundred bucks. ;)

Klaus

[Tony Kloosterma]

I'm sick of driving 2 hours to events,

You poor baby.......lets see
event 1 5 hours
event 2 4 hours
event 3 45 minutes
event 4 5 hours
event 5 2 hours
event 6 2 hours
event 7 7 hours
event 8 5 hours
event 9 2 hours
event 10 3 hours

all one way. and on top of that I leave an hour early just so I can get my shit ready before registration opens so I can cater to you guys.

Jeesuz I am sick and tired by the whining of the Toronto competitors who don't like to drive..... Maybe we should just have an Toronto series, lets call it the center of the universe series only open to those living in the toronto city limits

I'm getting too old for all this petty whining

Tony

[thekid]

Josh is just a shit disturber, like he said, he'll sit here and whine... then he'll show up... just like Dave... except for the "2 drip a day issue" which is a valid one...

Since we're all car guys, i'm sure it's less the drive that bothers people, and more the extra rules surrounding the facility which hopefully work themselves out for people with kids or older cars.

I'm looking forward to this event and hope everyone from the Ontario Region can make the trip.

[Gen1GT]

You poor baby.......lets see
event 1 5 hours
event 2 4 hours
event 3 45 minutes
event 4 5 hours
event 5 2 hours
event 6 2 hours
event 7 7 hours
event 8 5 hours
event 9 2 hours
event 10 3 hours

all one way.

Jeesuz I am sick and tired by the whining of the Toronto competitors who don't like to drive..... Maybe we should just have an Toronto series, lets call it the center of the universe series only open to those living in the toronto city limits

I'm getting too old for all this petty whining

Tony

Listen old man. These are all valid issues, not just random complaints. I DO NOT live in Toronto either. I've accepted the fact that I will have to drive 2-3 hours to an event. Just because you have a cushy air conditioned truck for your trailered car, does not mean that we all do. 7 hours of driving with the windows down is not extremely enjoyable.

[opal]

Good grief, you guys, CHILL. ;)

Yes, it's a long drive to Montreal. Big whoop. It's a long drive to Ottawa, too.
(And don't be throwing that "you drive a hybrid, so it's cheap for you" thing at me either. Time is time, and it's worth a lot more to me than a few bucks of 94.)

It seems to me that MCO got thrown a lemon and came up with a decent solution for the issue (hello, lemonade). If you don't like that solution, feel free to disagree, but lets stop flaming each other for having a different opinion on the subject, m'kay?

I think it's safe to say that we all agree that Toronto is NOT the center of the universe :p

*steps off the soap box required to see over the bickering crowd*

[holliko]

Good grief, you guys, CHILL. ;)

Yes, it's a long drive to Montreal. Big whoop. It's a long drive to Ottawa, too.
(And don't be throwing that "you drive a hybrid, so it's cheap for you" thing at me either. Time is time, and it's worth a lot more to me than a few bucks of 94.)

It seems to me that MCO got thrown a lemon and came up with a decent solution for the issue (hello, lemonade). If you don't like that solution, feel free to disagree, but lets stop flaming each other for having a different opinion on the subject, m'kay?

I think it's safe to say that we all agree that Toronto is NOT the center of the universe :p

*steps off the soap box required to see over the bickering crowd*


here here opal, the most sane, insane person I know....

[Logan]

Maybe we should just have an Toronto series
I'd always assumed that the PITL series was for the "casual, I don't want to drive more than 3 hours return trip to compete" type of person.
It's more centrally located (sort of), always at the same venue, still a lot of fun and the people who just want to wear their tires down have a good way of doing it.
The regional series is for people who want to compete with the best-of-the-best in the region, which means you gotta drive x number of hours to do this.
If you aren't prepared to make the personal/financial sacrifices required to compete in the regional events, regardless of location, don't register next year.

[Daniel]

So now I have to waste my day Saturday driving up to Montréal so I can spend $100 on a hotel, then drive 7 hours back Sunday evening.

I'm sick of driving 2 hours to events, let alone 7.



So don't come, plain and simple.....

Like Doug said in the last post, if you're not happy about it, don't sign up next year. It's just not possible to make everyone happy.

I'm "SICK" of the whining....

Personally, I'm looking forward to PMG... :D and I think you'll find that alot of guys are in the same boat. Those that aren't will stay home and miss out on all the fun. ;)

[njansenv]

It's only another 1 1/2 hr's over and above what would be a long trip anyways. To those who don't have a/c (like myself!): suck it up. Honestly, you sound like a spoiled punk, esp. referring to Kloosterma as an old man, and whining that he gets his a/ced truck.
I WISH I had the opportunity to run PMG...but I simply can't make the Sunday events. Ottawa is close enough that you can STILL stay there overnight. Good show on MCO's part to not simply cancel the event!

Remember, this shit is for fun. If it stops being fun, take a break, discover the 'real world'. ;)

Deep breath..........................................
There,
Nathan

PS: Some people DO care 'about the surface', and the overall quality of the venue. :)

[Gen1GT]

It's only another 1 1/2 hr's over and above what would be a long trip anyways. To those who don't have a/c (like myself!): suck it up. Honestly, you sound like a spoiled punk, esp. referring to Kloosterma as an old man, and whining that he gets his a/ced truck.
I WISH I had the opportunity to run PMG...but I simply can't make the Sunday events. Ottawa is close enough that you can STILL stay there overnight. Good show on MCO's part to not simply cancel the event!

Remember, this shit is for fun. If it stops being fun, take a break, discover the 'real world'. ;)

Deep breath..........................................
There,
Nathan

PS: Some people DO care 'about the surface', and the overall quality of the venue. :)

He refered to himself as old...

And I don't whine...I make observations...

If you knew me, you'd know the last thing I am is a spoiled punk. I'm just a guy who tells it like it is and isn't afraid to say what's on his mind...

[holliko]

Anyways.... If your going book your rooms soon..... I called the Ramada and apparently got one of the last rooms available for the night of Saturday,August 13th..... :)

[gatherer]

*gets out the 10 foot pole*

I'm staying this far away... :p

[DonS]

I say let them bitch and moan. If an opinion is valid for one person but seems trivial to another we get flame wars when maybe there shouldn't be one. But feel free to slap as appropriate. And it isn't about who suffers the most or least because of where they choose to live. The start/stop timer is the only measure (usually).

I have different reasons why I might not be able to make this one but I'm not about to mention it here...

Tough room.

[miataboi]

I'm just a guy who tells it like it is and isn't afraid to say what's on his mind...

Good.... I think we could all benefit from a moment of silence.

:eek: ;) :D

[13inches]

Here's the PMG facility in all its glory......

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=blainville,+quebec,+canada&ll=45.702696,-73.870869&spn=0.044113,0.058545&t=k&hl=en

[gatherer]

is that the pavement in the lower right hand corner?

[Tony Kloosterma]

the triangle in the middle top of the oval is what we use. the narrow part is staging and is probably as wide as the go train lot. if you zoom in you can see one of the courses that they used (lots of rubber on the pavement)

Tony

[gatherer]

thats huge...

[Marsh]

If memory serves they used cones to make a Solo-1 course there a few years ago.

[DareBee]

The regional series is for people who want to compete with the best-of-the-best in the region, which means you gotta drive x number of hours to do this.
If you aren't prepared to make the personal/financial sacrifices required to compete in the regional events, regardless of location, don't register next year.

I just spent a bunch of time reading this thread which is really of no concern to me.
I strongly feel that this ^ is the best point made here (in regards to the controversy). The regionals are for the most serious autocrossers, and if it is to much for you, find a local club series (or 2) and run it.

[Gen1GT]

"Serious Autocrossers" is nearly an oxymoron. The whole point of autocross is to provide an entry level outlet into racing, with cost and time involvements being minimal.

[thekid]

Everyone needs to stfu.... so far we've established that the distance of this event is irrelevant (hardly farther than Ottawa), plus you all like to drive your cars right? so drive an extra hour to a better facility anyway...

the only real concerns should be for those who either have a child under 18 or those who have a drip coming from there car... hopefully somebody from MCO can clarify the drip issue ... is a car that drips to 2-3 drops a day ok, especially if they bring something to park there car on?

I can't believe this has gone on this long, this should be a trivial issue, and some are making it out to be the biggest problem our sport has ever seen.

Everyone, GROW UP, bickering from both sides of this issue isn't going to help anyone! All we need now are some solid answers from organizers!

[gatherer]

"Serious Autocrossers" is nearly an oxymoron. The whole point of autocross is to provide an entry level outlet into racing, with cost and time involvements being minimal.


entry level is not equal to casual

it's a COMPETITION when you have a COMPETITION you will have people that get serious about COMPETING...


crap there I go again stepping beyond the reach of my 10 foot pole .. I'm going back to the circle now

[DonS]

Remember all the whining before last year's OMSC skidpad event? I went anyway and drove a car with twice the power of mine and had an absolute blast. This year there was less bitching about the tiny PMSC venue even though it was indeed tiny. Had fun.

Moral of the story, maybe next year the Quebec event (hope there is one) will see less whining. My concerns are of a different nature and no concern of the group so I'm stepping back into the circle with Jason.

Less bitchin about the future and more about the past. See, the issues are always different and less of a problem afterward.

You guys crack me up...

[gatherer]

Don you sure you want to be in my circle with my 10 foot pole?

[Gen1GT]

it's a COMPETITION when you have a COMPETITION you will have people that get serious about COMPETING...




I guess this is harder for me to relate to, since I don't compete. LOL. Tires, oh yes...tires would be nice...

[DonS]

Don you sure you want to be in my circle with my 10 foot pole?
oh, so that was a metaphor? To clarify, is that a big stick to keep distance or is that a 10 foot Pole as in a really tall person to protect us from the wrath of egos? Or are you just happy to see me? :)

I'll get my own stick just to be safe. There, a line is drawn in the sand. My space. My nightmare...

Don't get me drinkin...

:p

[gkierst]

hopefully somebody from MCO can clarify the drip issue


While not the official word, I'd say Craig has summarized the situation best. The event organizers have no control over what will be tolerated. This is totally up to PMG and their Security staff.

If the organizers do ask PMG how much leaking is ok, I bet I know what the official answer will be. "Zero tolerance."

If the organizers do ask PMG if they will allow "minor" leaks as long as people park on the grass, I bet I know what the answer will be. "Zero tolerance." (This is just something that those with leaks, who made it past security in the past, have done to avoid risking the club's damage deposit)

If the organizers do ask PMG how strict they will be in checking for leaks, then I suspect PMG Security will get special notice from PMG Management just how strict they are expected to be. :)

PMG Security will check cars for leaks. How strict they will be is totally at their discretion.

If my car leaked, then I would be apprehensive about making the trip. I think it is a decision each competitor will need to make for themselves. It's not ideal, but I don't consider it a great compromise to run at a superior venue with more stringent, but reasonable restrictions.

Just my 2 cents. (not adjusted for deflation)

Regards,
Greg

PS. Video of Klaus and Klaus the Second (http://www.mco.org/cms/index.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Video&min=10&orderby=titleA&show=10)at PMG on June 5th

[J.C.]

Many call this grassroots racing. IMO that really depends on your definition of grassroots. The dedication to this sport will vary for each individual and how seriously they want to take it. I don't think some people realise the effort that some put into this sport. Personally I would like to see the sport grow here in Canada so as to rival that of the USA. When I watched the Race of Champions from France earlier this year I thought now that's a course we should have, what a fantastic prosolo. I did not think oh look grassroots racing.

P.S. Gen1GT go to Topeka and tell them to not take this sport seriously.

[gatherer]

just some personal commentary and thoughts from me..

this leaks issue baffles me.. so oil gets spilt on the track. ok I can see they want to keep the surface the same for testing.. but then how do they deal with all the rubber thats going to be left behind? or what about the damage that gets done at the start line?

sure ok no oil but what about the rest of the damage an autoslalom event could do to a track?

and thats my thoughts.. I will not be there...I'll be in regina on a go kart track... Apparently with the directions I've been given I have to look for a bend int he road just after a hill in the middle of the praries... anyone else thoink thats odd?

[Gen1GT]

You guys need to get a sense of humour. I'm serious enough myself to enter for the season, travel to every event and spend money modifying my car to best take advantage of the rules.

But every time someone else brings up a serious issue regarding competition, everyone else replies with comments about how it's just for fun, and we're all in it for fun.

[Tashko]

Leaks you say? Well, I think it's time I prepare my cardboard skid plate so that I can duct tape it in place just before enter PMG.

No leak issue here! :D

[gkierst]

...
sure ok no oil but what about the rest of the damage an autoslalom event could do to a track?
...


I can only guess, but they may just be particularly wary of oil since the movie incident.

Certainly damage is possible from normal Solo 2 wear and tear. On a really hot day this summer I saw R-Compounds peel the surface off the asphalt in three or four spots just from cornering forces. I expect if they see that kind of damage, the clubs will be footing the repair bill.

At a PMG event a few years ago a tire rolled over and the wheel dug into the pavement. The club had to pay for repairs in that case.

Greg

[sjd]

I can only guess, but they may just be particularly wary of oil since the movie incident.

That POS movie destroyed everything it touched.

Also I'm in to attend. I was planning on attending Ottawa so it isn't that much farther. I think my Wife and I are going to camp or do the B&B thing and make a weekend out of it.

[miataboi]

On a really hot day this summer I saw R-Compounds peel the surface off the asphalt in three or four spots just from cornering forces.


You won't see those kinds of forces from the guys from T.O....
The CASC-OR guys drive like little girls.

(no offence to little girls)

MCO and the Quebec guys are FAR superior in terms of driving skill / ability.


In fact... I'm sure they'd like to make some friendly wagers.
;) :cool:

[craig]

Hi. My name is Craig, and I have a leaky car. :D

If I put cardboard under the car overnight, there will be a couple (2) drops of oil.

I have gone to PMG, and I will go to PMG - with cardboard/tarp/etc. I was at the first club event allowed onto the facility after the "Driven" debacle. I was last at PMG in June, and my car was not checked for leaks.

I have never been turned away. Does that mean I can guarantee nobody will ever be turned away? No. I have seen people turned away.

Aside: The way it works is the visitor's parking area holds about 40 cars. It is before the security guard post/gate. You drive into PMG and immediately turn left into the visitor's parking lot (straight is the guard post). There may be security in the visitor's parking lot checking cars. You are now on private property, security can do whatever they want to do, with or without your permission. Please be polite. You then walk up to the registration tables, which will be in front of the security guard post. You do your registration, then you return to your car. You will then drive up to the guard post, and you may have to stop. If so, please be polite to the security there, just like you would to a Canada Customs officer. The guard will probably just wave you ahead, and probably say something like "Bonne chance!" (Good luck). You will follow the road at 40km/hr (You are on video, and there is stationary and moving radar). There will be cones at all intersections so it is obvious which turns you are to take. Stay on course. Do NOT stop except at the stop signs. Do NOT get your camera out and photograph the manufacturer's prototypes and future year's models you may see. (If you have a video camera mounted on an in-camera mount, please remove the camcorder before entering PMG, and put it back on when you get to the Solo2 area. PMG is more anal about cameras than anything else.) After a few minutes of driving, you will come to the area being used. The timing tents/trailers will mark the end of the paddock/staging area, so do not park past them. Staging will be in the middle, so park on the sides. (See Klaus video above). Note that once you are in the parking area, you cannot leave the parking area unless you have an escort. The escort will be a club member, but equipped with a PMG radio. There will be an escort on duty during lunchtime, and later in the day. There will be porta-potties. There will be a designated smoking area, with ashtrays. Please do not put butts out on the asphalt. There will be lots of garbage containers. Please use them. This is a long-winded explanation of stuff already posted, but I hope it will be useful for some of you.

Anyhow, back to leaks. Let's put it this way. I drive on the 401 at 115km/hr to 120km/hr. I have been driving between Ottawa and Toronto for twenty years now. I have driven past photo radar; I have driven past stationary radar and laser. I have never had a speeding ticket doing this. (I do slow down to avoid passing moving OPP cruisers, though.) Does all that mean I can guarantee that nobody will ever get a speeding ticket if they drive the 401 between TO and Kingston like I do? No.

The big deal with leaks as far as I'm concerned is if something happens on course. This is what loses clubs the huge deposit. Everyone knows of cars that have run in Solo2 events that have dumped oil, or rad fluid, etc., on course due to a mechanical failure. This is what the organizing clubs want to avoid. (Rubber washes away.)

Also, I have seen people under the age of 18 at every event I have been to at PMG. I have seen babies in strollers at events at PMG. Can I guarantee that someone under 18 will be allowed into PMG? No. The rule is, and the contract says, nobody under 18.

Finally, this is a joint event between two clubs. There is twice as much chance of SNAFU's, twice as much chance of confusion, two sets of rules and classifications and timing and scoring, and a driver's meeting that will be at least twice as long, and in two languages. There will be people and officials who do not understand English; there will be people and officials who do not understand French. There will be at least twice as much chance of delays. It is not MCO (regional) first, CADL second. The two are equal. Please keep that in mind. Your understanding and cooperation are, and will be, greatly appreciated by the organizers. Thank-you.

[StewPiddass]

C'est une bonne chance qu'on reste tout dans un pays bilingue... je suis certain que tout le monde est bien pratiqué dans nos deux langues officielles.

Translation: (for those who need it)

It's a good thing we all live in a bilingual country... I'm sure everyone is well versed in our two official languages.

[miataboi]

Cest une belle baguette aujoud'dui.

[JoeT]

je suis certain que tout le monde est bien pratiqué dans nos deux langues officielles.


C'est vrai, tous les Ontariens peut parler francais aussi. Mais on cache bien la deuxieme langue.. LOL

Translation:

Yeah, it's true that all Ontariens can speak French. But we hide the 2nd language very well.

[miataboi]

I prefer the term: "Sleeper Francophones"

[J.C.]

C'est vrai, tous les Ontariens peut parler francais aussi. Mais on cache bien la deuxieme langue.. LOL

Translation:

Yeah, it's true that all Ontariens can speak French. But we hide the 2nd language very well.

Hey any idea what LOL translates to in english? :rolleyes:

[gkierst]

MCO and the Quebec guys are FAR superior in terms of driving skill / ability.

In fact... I'm sure they'd like to make some friendly wagers.
;) :cool:

True. (Just don't try to verify by, I don't know, judging by past year's results)

I don't know why it is, but I feel that gambling takes something from the purity of the sport. Or maybe just from my wallet.

Greg

[JoeT]

I don't know why it is, but I feel that gambling takes something from the purity of the sport. Or maybe just from my wallet.

Greg

:p Wow! That showing a lot of confidence. :p

We can all see through your humble facade, behind the mask, you're actually the re-incarnation of ............ :eek: Super Speed Racer

[gkierst]

:p Wow! That showing a lot of confidence. :p

We can all see through your humble facade, behind the mask, you're actually the re-incarnation of ............ :eek: Super Speed Racer

[poker face] Actually, I would feel pretty good about my odds stacked against another NA Miata. My "superior skill" can't always overcome the advantage of boost.

Drat, the facade, I forgot the facade.

Greg

[StewPiddass]

I can think of a certain guy (or maybe 2) in a NA Miata that might be up to that challenge...

[gkierst]

I can think of a certain guy (or maybe 2) in a NA Miata that might be up to that challenge...

I'm not sure who's active in the Regional series this year, but I know of two who could make it interesting. Have to see who comes out.

Greg

[bbqman]

Hey guys,

just thought I would comment on the thread. So far all that has been explained by Craig and Tony is correct.

Just be sure that you have no visible oil dropping from your car when you arrive. If you are going to chance it, and you know your car drips, please use cardboard when parked.....this could cost the club big $$$$.

There will be some lunch sold at the event site but it will be difficult to go get lunch or gas outside the site once we start.

I must say that I am real pleased that MCO and the CADL have accepted to do the joint event and that the Ontario Regional guys are following . This event may be as big and as important in caliber of competition as the 2005 CAC.

Oh yeah....last little note..... I will be designing the course.....better check to see if 3rd gear engages !!!!
As they say in French....'Attaches ta tuque...avec la broche'
I am looking forward to seeing all my pals from ontario at this event.

Carl

[13inches]

'Attaches ta tuque...avec la broche'
Translation: OMGHI2U!!!!11!!ONE!!!

[haniforama]

Oh yeah....last little note..... I will be designing the course.....better check to see if 3rd gear engages !!!!
As they say in French....'Attaches ta tuque...avec la broche'
I am looking forward to seeing all my pals from ontario at this event.

Carl

Woohoo! I'll be there!

Hanif

[soloZ]

Hey guys,

just thought I would comment on the thread. So far all that has been explained by Craig and Tony is correct.

Just be sure that you have no visible oil dropping from your car when you arrive. If you are going to chance it, and you know your car drips, please use cardboard when parked.....this could cost the club big $$$$.

There will be some lunch sold at the event site but it will be difficult to go get lunch or gas outside the site once we start.

I must say that I am real pleased that MCO and the CADL have accepted to do the joint event and that the Ontario Regional guys are following . This event may be as big and as important in caliber of competition as the 2005 CAC.

Oh yeah....last little note..... I will be designing the course.....better check to see if 3rd gear engages !!!!
As they say in French....'Attaches ta tuque...avec la broche'
I am looking forward to seeing all my pals from ontario at this event.

Carl

Hopefully you mean 3rd in a car with long long gears, I personally can't wait to see this place and race with the Qbeckers.

[runwhatyabrung]

Hey guys,
Oh yeah....last little note..... I will be designing the course.....better check to see if 3rd gear engages !!!!
As they say in French....'Attaches ta tuque...avec la broche'
I am looking forward to seeing all my pals from ontario at this event.

Carl

I was there at the early June event, and had to use 3rd gear on 2 different spots of the course. I don't want to spread rumours but some people we clocked in the triple digits (KMH) :eek: going throught the slalom that was set up on the back stretch.

Regional #93 Silver Miata

[bbqman]

I was there at the early June event, and had to use 3rd gear on 2 different spots of the course. I don't want to spread rumours but some people we clocked in the triple digits (KMH) :eek: going throught the slalom that was set up on the back stretch.

Regional #93 Silver Miata


I will set up a challenging course with sufficient speed zones. If you reach 3 rd gear, it will be because you have held it WFO for a bit. The course will be technical, but with wide open corners.......this should allow artistic interpetation.

As far as the last event there goes....I held 3rd gear thru the slalom and was deep into the vtec!!!! fastest I have ever been on a Solo II course.

[miataboi]

I don't want to spread rumours but some people we clocked in the triple digits (KMH) :eek: going throught the slalom that was set up on the back stretch.

Regional #93 Silver Miata


I did that at Picton in the slalom!

I hit 3rd at COMP and routinely do so at PITL events!
That's 3 digits!

3rd gear's good.

[Gen1GT]

I was there at the early June event, and had to use 3rd gear on 2 different spots of the course. I don't want to spread rumours but some people we clocked in the triple digits (KMH) :eek: going throught the slalom that was set up on the back stretch.

Regional #93 Silver Miata

I would hope that anyone in 3rd gear is in triple digits, since my humble Protegé does 100 in 2nd....

[runwhatyabrung]

I would hope that anyone in 3rd gear is in triple digits, since my humble Protegé does 100 in 2nd....

My even humbler Miata does not :rolleyes:

[haniforama]

redline in 2nd for me is 90kph. I hit third twice on the last PITL course.

[jduffett]

I used to be able to hit 110 (or more?) in 2nd, and my 2nd gear isn't really that tall. Rev limiter doesn't kick in until an indicated 7800-7900 rpm though! :D But, my tires are shorter this year...
Sounds like this event will be a blast. Too bad I'll be on vacation... :( (First time I've ever said that!)

[Gen1GT]

I used to be able to hit 110 (or more?) in 2nd, and my 2nd gear isn't really that tall. Rev limiter doesn't kick in until an indicated 7800-7900 rpm though! :D But, my tires are shorter this year...
Sounds like this event will be a blast. Too bad I'll be on vacation... :( (First time I've ever said that!)

You got a KL-ZE? Have any idea what actual RPM is? My 90 GT has the standard 7300RPM redline of most(all?) BPs, but the current 205/40/17 tires help raise the gear ratio. On my 93 GT, rev limit was extended another 100RPM to 7400(7600 indicated) for some reason after installing my RX7 Airflow Meter.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32149

Sorry for the off topic post...

[jduffett]

You got a KL-ZE? Have any idea what actual RPM is? My 90 GT has the standard 7300RPM redline of most(all?) BPs, but the current 205/40/17 tires help raise the gear ratio. On my 93 GT, rev limit was extended another 100RPM to 7400(7600 indicated) for some reason after installing my RX7 Airflow Meter.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=32149

Sorry for the off topic post...
Not yet... When this motor dies I'll do a ZE. Actual rev limit is supposed to be 7500, but the tach is off by a fair bit at high RPM. Power starts to trail off up there, but it's handy to be able to wind it out when you don't have the room to put third to good use.
That's a nice looking curve BTW. I'd say I'd be lucky if I was putting much more than 145 to the wheels, and I've got more than a few cc's on you...

[Gen1GT]

Not yet... When this motor dies I'll do a ZE. Actual rev limit is supposed to be 7500, but the tach is off by a fair bit at high RPM. Power starts to trail off up there, but it's handy to be able to wind it out when you don't have the room to put third to good use.
That's a nice looking curve BTW. I'd say I'd be lucky if I was putting much more than 145 to the wheels, and I've got more than a few cc's on you...

Nice, I had no idea they spun that high stock. I've always liked the 626. It would have been my next car had they not come out with the 6...

[Pete@Marcor]

fastest I have ever been on a Solo II course.

I have been to some US events where 4th was not uncommon. Short gears and an open course work together! Also, the Pontiac Silverdome's lot is pretty nice and big.

I can't wait to have the chance to go back to this lot. I just hope that the end to my weekend is better than the last time I was there. I had the pleasure of towing home my Solo car, after driving it there. :(