MINI Cooper S wheels [Archive] - CASC Ontario Region Message Forums

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roooo

08-28-2005, 06:37 PM

gatherer

08-28-2005, 06:53 PM

in stock he can take the 1 point for a different wheel size (and therefore can run 17" 16" or 15" or anything else that can fit) and 1 for R compounds. that car is very well setup.

sjd

08-28-2005, 08:32 PM

in stock he can take the 1 point for a different wheel size (and therefore can run 17" 16" or 15" or anything else that can fit) and 1 for R compounds. that car is very well setup.

Doesn't he have a rear sway bar though?

StewPiddass

08-28-2005, 08:55 PM

Uh-Oh...if the wheels weren't a separate option we might have some trouble.

gatherer

08-28-2005, 09:51 PM

Doesn't he have a rear sway bar though?

to be completely honest I am unaware as to how he is spending his points. Someone asked about different wheels I responded with how different sized wheels could be on the car.

Daniel

08-28-2005, 11:03 PM

I just had to check the "build your mini" section on mini.ca.
http://www.mini.ca/en/Model_Range/MINI_Cooper_S/Build_Your_MINI/default.aspx

If you have the "sport package", you can only have 17" wheels.
If you don't have the "sport package", you can only have 16" wheels.

(LSD is available as a non-packaged option).

So .. which is correct for Daniel's car?

Are we really discussing this?!? :confused:

the sport package includes fog lights, traction control (which I turn off), and the 17 inch rims. How is that any different from buying aftermarket?

The Mini Cooper S comes stock with 16x6.5 inch rims.

so, yes, I do drive on 17's on the street...... Not really sure I understand what's being discussed here.....

My set up (I have nothing to hide):

Factory LSD (allowed in stock class - no points)
16x6.5 inch Mini rims
215/40/16 r-comps (1 point)
rear sway bar (1 point)
lots and lots of driver training and seat time (0 points) <- best mod EVER!! :D

Believe me, the LAST thing I want is to cause a problem.....but in this case I VERY much believe that my car is set up properly for stock class.

Edited for spelling.....

haniforama

08-28-2005, 11:13 PM

lots and lots of driver training and seat time (0 points) <- best mod EVER!! :D

... for every thing else, there's Mastercard (r) ;) :D

It's a nice setup and IMO perfectly within the letter of the rules. Bring it to the shootout so we can go head to head!

roooo

08-28-2005, 11:13 PM

If the car as configured from the factory doesn't come with the option of 16's .. they're not a 0-point option for stock class. Unless I completely mis-understand the rulebook.

But looking at the full Mini options list, the things in the sport package can also be added separately so you're right.. it's legal.

I just wanted to make sure :)

JoeT

08-28-2005, 11:16 PM

... for every thing else, there's Mastercard (r) ;) :D

It's a nice setup and IMO perfectly within the letter of the rules. Bring it to the shootout so we can go head to head!

Hey Hanif,

Does that mean, he's eligable for the multi-million dollar purse, delivered personally by Vannah White, at the end of the season if he wins his class? :D

Or does he have to settle for a weekend away with Hanif? :eek:

haniforama

08-28-2005, 11:46 PM

Or does he have to settle for a weekend away with Hanif? :eek:

You're jussst jealousss... ;)

Gen1GT

08-29-2005, 06:51 AM

Now that that's settled, commence arguements about the legitimacy of a Mini Cooper S with a supercharged engine and an LSD being in GS...

haniforama

08-29-2005, 07:02 AM

Now that that's settled, commence arguements about the legitimacy of a Mini Cooper S with a supercharged engine and an LSD being in GS...

I've heard rumours from south of the border that it's likely moving to DS.

13inches

08-29-2005, 09:06 AM

Settled? I'm not sure about that............

If his car is a sport package he has to run stock size/width/offset 17s (within the rulebook allowances) or take a point. Thats 3 points.

Daniel

08-29-2005, 09:10 AM

Now that that's settled, commence arguements about the legitimacy of a Mini Cooper S with a supercharged engine and an LSD being in GS...

I figured it was only a matter of time before this was brought up.....

Factory LSD is allowed in all stock classes (that shouldn't even be an issue)..

As for the rest.......have at it! :rolleyes: :)

I already have a pretty good idea of who will be in on this discussion.......

**Comment deleted as SUPERDAVE has spoken.........again (comment can still be found below in his post.... ;)

Daniel

08-29-2005, 09:26 AM

Settled? I'm not sure about that............

If his car is a sport package he has to run stock size/width/offset 17s (within the rulebook allowances) or take a point. Thats 3 points.

16 inch rims are "Standard" and "Installed" as stock on the Mini Cooper S.

miataboi

08-29-2005, 09:37 AM

Daniel.

You have made things difficult for yourself....

You should have bought a bad auto-x car and avoided all of this... like a 4-banger accord... or a Beetle.

BUT NOOOooooo... you had to get a GOOD auto-x car!
:p

FYI... Daniel LEARNED how to drive... in a 911 TURBO (RWD... before AWD) ON THE TRACK at lapping days!

WOW... that's a good way to leard to say the least!!
Daniel is a top-notch driver... one of the best competing currently.
Only a TRUE driver... would pick a NEW CAR to buy.... based on how it's classed in Regionals...

WICKED man!
:D

superdave

08-29-2005, 09:42 AM

oh, and I love how this stuff is never questioned until someone comes out and does well... (or too well?!?)

You're kidding right? Of course its going to be a discussion when its brought to peoples attention. You think people are going to go out and reasearch every car in there class, every option and mod available, when the car isn't even be competed with in the class atm? Right. :rolleyes:

13inches

08-29-2005, 09:43 AM

Standard and installed on your sport package are 17"

Daniel

08-29-2005, 09:49 AM

lol.... It wasn't actually a Turbo, but I was lucky enough to put in some lapping time behind the wheel of a 911....

wish i still had that chance!! :( That truely was the best time I've ever had behind the wheel of a car...

None of this overweight, wrong wheel drive business that I'm currently involved with....... :D ;)

roooo

08-29-2005, 09:52 AM

The Cooper S with 16" rims is legal. Mini was just smart about how they offer their packages. I don't think there is actually any controversy here.

It's just frustrating to have someone show up in the overdog car at the end of the season. :p Not to take anything away from Daniel's ability as a driver.

As far as whether it's classed correctly, the SCCA will have to wait till after nationals to determine that. And it seems like they might be changing the face of GS completely by moving more DS cars down into GS? Have to wait until 2006 to find out!

I think the only thing that might make a difference in the Cooper S performance in GS between here and the USA is that we allow changing the rear bar in Ontario, while SCCA doesn't.

Daniel

08-29-2005, 09:53 AM

miataboi

08-29-2005, 09:58 AM

lol.... It wasn't actually a Turbo, but I was lucky enough to put in some lapping time behind the wheel of a 911....

wish i still had that chance!! :( That truely was the best time I've ever had behind the wheel of a car...

:D ;)

I've had a real good time behind the wheel of a vehicle... but it was parked... and had tilt-steering....

YMMV.
:D

(What happens in the van, stays in the Van! :eek: )

J.C.

08-29-2005, 10:00 AM

I've had a real good time behind the wheel of a vehicle... but it was parked... and had tilt-steering....

YMMV.
:D

(What happens in the van, stays in the Van! :eek: )

I believe you have Jeff and I have asked Jason about it but he is not talking :D

Doug P

08-29-2005, 10:11 AM

I figured it was only a matter of time before this was brought up.....

Factory LSD is allowed in all stock classes (that shouldn't even be an issue)..

As for the rest.......have at it! :rolleyes: :)

I already have a pretty good idea of who will be in on this discussion.......

oh, and I love how this stuff is never questioned until someone comes out and does well... (or too well?!?)

As long as you are no longer in ESS! Thanks for that. :)

I do not get this wheel size thing. It should not matter if the wheel is combined with a package or not. If it was available in some form of option on its own or in a package it should be legal. Ordered with a package or not, it is the same car in the same class. Any wheel size available to order through the dealer from the factory should be allowed.

Go Daniel.

superdave

08-29-2005, 10:13 AM

Nice Dave.....thanks for your contribution!!!

It was a serious post. Do you research every car in your class, and every option or mod that can be done to them, when the car isn't actually being competeted with by anyone in your class yet? I highly doubt it. People don't have time for that crap, which is people bring these issues up when they appear in front of them. Don't be so dense. :rolleyes:

I'm in no way saying your wrong by using the 16" wheels. I really don't care. But to use the cop out of why was this never brought up before... thats lame.

thekid

08-29-2005, 10:16 AM

Daniel

08-29-2005, 10:25 AM

Don't be so dense. :rolleyes:

uncalled for man...

I will admit though that my comment did not fully come across as intended. Let's move on shall we...

I appreciate you bringing this to my attention! :)

roooo

08-29-2005, 10:30 AM

The Cooper S has also been beating DS times at divisional SCCA events this year ... what happens at and after nationals will be interesting.

Slowpoke

08-29-2005, 10:32 AM

Are we really discussing this?!? :confused:

the sport package includes fog lights, traction control (which I turn off), and the 17 inch rims. How is that any different from buying aftermarket?

Curse you for making me open a rulebook!! ;-)

Okay, section 6.1.D, page 6-4 from final rulebook:

"Any item of standard or optional equipment that could have been ordered with the specific year, make and
model of car, installed on the production line, and delivered to the dealer in Canada. Dealer-installed
options, except as required by factory directives, are not included in this definition no matter how common
such equipment may be. Except for authorized modifications as listed for each vehicle category, the
vehicle must compete as delivered from the manufacturer with standard equipment only."

Okay, assuming that the website is up to date with commercial options... your Mini should have arrived at the dealer with 17" rims. The 16" would have been a dealer installed option.

If you bought the Mini Cooper S with sport package, one would assume that you have to compete with 17" wheels with same width. Sure, the dealer would have given you the option to trade wheels with someone else, but as noted above...

Those 17" wheels will also have to be +/- 0.25" in offset from stock. (+/- 6.35mm if you're metric.)

But, here's the rub. You can just select the Fog Lights, DSC, and LSD as individual options when you order the car and it would have come with 16" wheels. You COULD have ordered it that way instead of with the sport package. So, as long as the 16" wheels you are using are the same width and +/-6.35mm from the 16" stock wheels, you're fine in Stock.

I really don't think these guys want to see you in 17" R-Comps ANYWAY. Then you'd really smack them hard. So... to the doubters, be careful what you ask for .... You may just end up with Daniel in 17" shoes.

-----------------------------

As for classing, you're in trouble Daniel. Navigator was claiming last year that his car wasn't competitive against a Mini... NOW there's an excellent driver in that car. People will whine. You will be re-classed next year.

So, let's be fair then.

Miata's move to A-Stock, ASS and ASP as they're modded.

Civics move to Stock class F.

Modded STi's move to CSS and CSP.

Whine away, people.

Edited for reading clarity.

Daniel

08-29-2005, 10:33 AM

on to the DS vs. GS debate....

In my position one would expect me to say that car should stay in GS, since if he moves in to DS I have to go head to head with Daniel, but IMO, DS is where the CooperS should be... so this is coming from someone who stands to lose from the move if it happens...

Daniel, take it as a compliment that people want the car moved, because it takes a good driver to prove what a car can do and what class the car should be in.... so to answer your question, you're right this won't be questioned until someone comes out and does well... the proof was in the pudding yesterday, you beat DS in raw times...

I do appreciate the compliment, thanks Brian! :D

As for the GS/DS thing....... I've made it very clear all along that I don't care what class I'm in (GS or DS). If DS means less controversy, so be it....

Brian, I look forward to some tight competition next year!!! ;)

roooo

08-29-2005, 10:37 AM

The main problem with having to run 17's is that it's nearly impossible to find any in the correct size!

There isn't even a V710 in 225/45 or 205/40 ... ( yet? )

superdave

08-29-2005, 10:42 AM

The main problem with having to run 17's is that it's nearly impossible to find any in the correct size!

There isn't even a v710 in 225/45 or 205/40 ... ( yet? )

Yes I'm an ass. I know :D

miataboi

08-29-2005, 10:59 AM

Yes I'm an ass. I know :D

I was intoxicated one evening after a night out after a Regional event...

I woke up at 5:00 AM with last-years' OVERALL champion's face buried in my lap... while I was passed out drunk sitting upright on a couch...

WTF is that???? :confused:

Sadly... tru story. :(

Keep an eye on that one.
:(

Gen1GT

08-29-2005, 07:37 PM

I was intoxicated one evening after a night out after a Regional event...

I woke up at 5:00 AM with last-years' OVERALL champion's face buried in my lap... while I was passed out drunk sitting upright on a couch...

WTF is that???? :confused:

Sadly... tru story. :(

Keep an eye on that one.
:(

Typical Josh observation and question here...but why did you use two different versions of the apostrophe to show possesion? "Last year" specifies that it is singular, so requires the "last year's" usage... :p

I didn't have any real contribution to this thread, but felt the need to add something stupid anyway....lol

miataboi

09-03-2005, 01:57 PM

interestingly... you can order lowering springs and a performance exhaust through Toyota for an Echo hatch... stock / delivered.

How does that rule?

Slowpoke

09-03-2005, 04:08 PM

I believe that Volkswagen is letting you do the same for the new Jetta. We all laughed at the Scions but they might be opening up new doors for our sport.

haniforama

09-03-2005, 06:03 PM

interestingly... you can order lowering springs and a performance exhaust through Toyota for an Echo hatch... stock / delivered.

How does that rule?

Those vehicles would likely either be started in SS or be assigned a different starting class than their "stock" counterparts - kinda like the werks package on the Cooper.

(or type-R Integra)

Hanif

13inches

09-04-2005, 07:31 PM

Dealer option or factory option?

Very different things.

craig

09-04-2005, 09:43 PM

interestingly... you can order lowering springs and a performance exhaust through Toyota for an Echo hatch... stock / delivered.

Both are dealer-installed. The only factory option for the Echo hatch is the "A/C Package" (not just A/C, which is dealer-installed).

A MINI w/LSD sounds like a fun car to autox :cool:.

miataboi

09-04-2005, 10:41 PM

Both are dealer-installed. The only factory option for the Echo hatch is the "A/C Package" (not just A/C, which is dealer-installed).

A MINI w/LSD sounds like a fun car to autox :cool:.

It's on the web site.

You can build your car that way... and finance it that way.

It's not "CALLED" a "package"... but neither is much of the Mini stuff.

Same thing as far as i can tell...

no?

craig

09-04-2005, 10:58 PM

Note the headings:

For calculation purposes, all accessory pricing includes installation (if required). However, because the cost of doing business varies, the installation portion of the price may not be the exact cost of installation at a dealership. Please confirm accessory pricing with a Toyota dealership.

A/C PACKAGE (CE)
Air Conditioning, Rear Bumper Protector, Front and Rear Splash Guards $1290.00

DEALER INSTALLED INTERIOR ACCESSORIES
Air Conditioner (Includes $100 Federal Excise Tax) $1610.00
<delete>

DEALER INSTALLED EXTERIOR ACCESSORIES
<delete>
Cold Air Intake $457.00
<delete>
Lowering Springs $439.00
Performance Exhaust $691.00
Performance Exhaust-without lowering springs $691.00
<delete>

miataboi

09-05-2005, 06:23 AM

In canada... MANY accessories / options for MANY car companies are "dealer-installed"...

But if they are official options... it doesn't matter if it's built in a Japanese factory, one in US... or put in place at the dealer, no?

roooo

09-06-2005, 12:55 AM

Factory-installed options only.

finboy

09-07-2005, 12:46 AM

JTB read 6.1 D "standard parts and equipment"

Pete@Marcor

09-07-2005, 10:23 AM

You're kidding right? Of course its going to be a discussion when its brought to peoples attention. You think people are going to go out and reasearch every car in there class, every option and mod available, when the car isn't even be competed with in the class atm? Right. :rolleyes:

I don't think he was joking at all. When I look at preparing to compete in a car, in a class, I look at all the possible cars in that class, and how I will stack up against them. I also think about how each car will perform in that particular prep level. I am extremely concerned about the SCCA's proposals to move some seriously fast cars down the class levels, as it will make a lot of our GS and HS cars obsolete. Those moves will affect what car I will compete in, and how it will be prepared.

Also, I am surprised that this conversation is still going on. Daniel's Mini is competing with equipment that is available from the dealership, all with factory installed options. He may not have bought it that way, but he COULD have. One can buy a base Mini, then add the options of an LSD, F+R fog lamps, and DSC (Dynamic Stability Control). The vehicle would still be equipped with 16" wheels and tires, but have all of the OTHER equipment that is normally available in the "sport package".

So, his car is available from the factory, the way that the car is competing. His car is therefore legal for stock. I don't know why this has gone on for so long.

<rant mode off.>

7plymaple

09-07-2005, 09:59 PM

haniforama

09-07-2005, 10:02 PM

It's on the web site.

You can build your car that way... and finance it that way.

It's not "CALLED" a "package"... but neither is much of the Mini stuff.

Same thing as far as i can tell...

no?

someone is fishing for upgrades for his echo to come play in HS.

nice try :D

roadster333

09-08-2005, 07:56 AM

Okay when this thread was first started I was hoping to see one fact come to light. But it hasnt yet. So I think that I should mention that I know that Roo did not start this thread because he was thinking of protesting the mini. He was thinking of buying one. Well at least researching the GS cars. We had a conversation right after the last regional about coming back with new rides for 2006.

I hope Im not stepping on any toes here but I just dont want people to think that hes the kind of guy to bitch. Hes not the kind of guy to get all defensive and be trying to explain himself. Which is why Im affraid some people might have the wrong idea.

Simon

that does clear things up a lot!! now everyone should feel much better and go give rooo a hug!! :p

The cooper is an awesome car competitive or not. The 05 with the shorter gearing and LSD makes it just that much better. Another thing to keep in mind is that BMW is updating it in 06 with a bigger body and a turbo motor co-developed with Peugeot.

Pete@Marcor

09-08-2005, 09:07 AM

...I was hoping to see one fact come to light. But it hasnt yet.

And what fact were you looking for? It is usually much easier to ask directly for an answer.

J.C.

09-24-2005, 10:07 AM

Latest I have heard regarding Mini classing in the US for next year.

"All" Minis are not going to end up in GS and could be in up to 4 stock classes
if the JCW gets broken out separately and given a courtesy classification in a
much higher stock class such as BS, and the 05' and up MCS gets moved to DS.

Will be intersting to see how things shake out.