View Full Version : Any new status on Cayuga's (TMP) legal problems?
Bad Karma
05-28-2002, 01:21 PM
Gang,
Has anybody managed to attend the hearing scheduled for today about Cayuga's noise violation injunction?
I'm just wondering what results the hearing may have had, or if anything is happening on one way or the other to resolve the issue, and hopefully get us one of our local tracks 'back in action'.
Any news would be greatly appreciated.
Pat
Bad Karma
05-30-2002, 01:51 PM
Latest update:
Cayuga has essentially LOST the hearing, so the injunction against them stands.
They have until the end of June to construct sufficient sound barriers to prevent any further noise violations to the surrounding area.
Based on this, I'm highly doubtful that Cayuga will be open for business at all this year.
Pat
ctenche
05-30-2002, 02:51 PM
Wow! Not good news at all. Cayuga will suffer quite a bit of a financial set back because of this.
Most of the noise comes from the drag strip so I wonder if just that portion will be closed or the entire facility?
Bad Karma
05-30-2002, 03:07 PM
The injunction is against the entire facility, but the road course is the only piece Bieri doesn't have permits for.
Unfortunately, if it came down to him shutting down one side of the setup or the other, the road course would probably get toasted.
The biggest question now is whether or not he's going to walk away from the investment, or finish off his attempts at turning it into a world-class facility and continue the investment.
My *fear* is that he shuts down the facility and sells it all off as farmland...
Pat
ctheo
05-30-2002, 03:18 PM
I do believe many racetracks accross North America have been shut down due to noise violations or insurance hikes over the years. This seems to be a double whammy for TMP. The insurance rate have gone up and they will be forced to spend more $$$ on a sound barrier.
Doesn't look good.
If they do shut down the facility I hope the OPP will be ready for an increase in street racing.
It's hard to take it to the track when the track has been taken.
this is terrible news....if i had a bulldozer i would go and help them make some sound barriers...
anyone in solo 1 own that type of equipment?
ctenche
05-30-2002, 03:33 PM
Ay aye aye. I didn't realise they didn't have permits for the road coarse.
Exactly what kind of a sound barier could they put up to muffle the roar of those outlaw drag cars? Would a wall like you see on the 401 do the trick?
They were supposedly putting in a new timing tower and grand stands this year. I haven't been out there since last season so I'm not sure if that happened or not. If it did, I image that their budget for this year must have run dry.
I sure hope Bieri has some deep pockets and vision to see the road course through. It will be a shame and a lot of wasted effort if they close it down.
they would need very tall ones and thick.....
that place has been there for years...who could be complaining now?
maybe a trip one weekend by all of us with some signs could be organized..to fight this at cayuga city hall (or shed or whatever they have)
RacerRobb
05-30-2002, 03:56 PM
Not sure how factual the following is but heard this from someone who is generally "hooked-up"
1) Sometime last fall it was agreed that a 2 metre tall berm topped by a chain link fence would encircle all or part of the property. Nothing was done.
2) The principals in the matter showed up for the meeting with the council with very little ammunition. No expert witnesses. No evidence etc. etc.
3) The fact that the property was formally an airport should have meant it had some history of noise production. This was never discussed?
4) Not only the track was built without a permit but a new access road was cut to the county road without a permit. Apparently this is a big deal. At least as far as the council is concerned.
5) Apparently 2 model rockets were fired from the property recently with the 2 spent rockets landing in the backyards (back fields) of 2 of the neightbours. One neighbout extracted a 100.00 bounty for the spent rocket. The other neighbour would not give back the rocket even with a ransom. The operators of the rockets volunteered that they set them off from the property. Seems as far as the council is concerned it demonstrates lack of security.
6) Some "neighbours" attended from 20 miles away to complain about the noise.
As I stated earlier these may or may not be true but it's interesting reading, I guess!
Robb
once you get involved in pissing contests with small time local yocal politicians you are in deep trouble...they have nothing better to do
maybe the "racing community" could organize some sort of "save cayuga" saturday? a few hundred people with signs and the local/regional news there would stir things up..and then play on the street race crud getting kids off the street ect...
anyone in solo 1 with any tv media pull?
we should help..cause next could be any of the tracks...
what do you guys think? whats one saturday out of our time to support cayuga? do you know who the owner is?
Bad Karma
05-30-2002, 05:01 PM
A couple of major things have happened recently to cause this for Cayuga.
The dragstrip has been there for YEARS, and it HAS a permit. However, with the IHRA affiliation, the noise level has increased, since it's no longer local boys with souped up cars running at Cayuga, but a whole new Pro class. This has brought the noise level up significantly.
Two, city council has changed recently, and while the previous council was friendly to Bieri and TMSP, the new council is a little more *left-wing*, and doesn't care much for the track. So while Bieri may have permits for the dragstrip, the access road doesn't have them, and neither does the road course.
The noise injunction applies to all of it, so the track is essentially shut down until that can be satisfied. One of the problems is this; whether or not *noise levels* are actually excessive, all that is required to force the injunction is a sufficient number of complaints.
One of the primary complainants owns a B&B on the highway (#6 I think) back towards the town of Cayuga; how she can hear dragsters and road cars on the track I have no idea, as I wasn't able to hear anything from the track when I stopped at the corner. Highway traffic is much louder there than any noise from the track. A lot of the *old timers* in the area hate the track being there, and complain about noise pollution even though most of them have no evidence of said pollution.
However, if enough people yell fire, sooner or later somebody will call the fire department, and that's what has happened here.
The town council supports these people, most likely because Bieri hasn't played the political game with town council well enough. Now they're out to screw him, and it's likely they'll succeed.
If Bieri actually had permits for the road course, access road etc, then a lot of this would have been avoided. He didn't take the new council seriously, and it's coming back to haunt all of us now.
Pat
Brent
05-30-2002, 08:35 PM
Town council is going to "burn him cause he's a witch", make Cayuga a dry county and outlaw them there motor vehicles altogether.
Brent
05-30-2002, 08:54 PM
TMP doesn't need sound barriers. It needs a giant anti noise and vibration system. They just need to design a system to receive the car sounds, invert them and transmit an equal and opposite sound. This would eliminate most of the noise.
Taylor
05-30-2002, 10:16 PM
How about Tom? How about the Forumla Honda guys who started this PACER thing which is supposed to put on these free drag events at TMP. Screw the "2 hour" drive, that the least of the problems it seems...
Can't believe this guy spent all that money to pave the road course and he didn't have a permit. Ugh.
Yup.. drop Cayuga and say hello to some serious increase in Street Dragging.. *shrug* maybe it'll prompt city council to open a strip in the city.
roooo
05-30-2002, 11:08 PM
Well, I don't see anything about it on their website. If they're not asking for help, why waste your time?
Maybe it would be a step in the right direction if they smartened up and renamed the track "Cayuga MSP" as it should be instead of trying to play all nice to the city-folk and pretend to be a "Toronto" venue. Like, identify more with the community, etc, etc instead of selling out with a fake image.
Goddam you'd think if you wanted PACER to do something about street racing in GTA then they'd rent some land out North-West of the city by Woodbridge or something *lol*.
You think some dude in his wicket-fast NOS Civic is really going to waste a 2 hour drive to Welland county just to drag race and reprezent for the homeys??
guys..we have 4 solo 1 races at TMP? what are WE going to do about that? has anyone contacted DDT or shannonville to see if we can book there?
OR
what about going to quebec and renting that 4 mile oval high speed track? that might be fun..dangerous but fun
Taylor
05-31-2002, 10:20 AM
roooo: My comments arn't about whether Pacer is a successful idea or not, but it's about something that was publically promoted as a "solution" to street racing to the public and it sounds like it won't make it past day one.
Obviously the right solution is a track in the GTA. That's what should be campagined for (again). Perhaps the closure of Cayuga could help that, or at the least get GTA politicians to put the pressure on the town of Cayuga to piss off.
SlowMo
05-31-2002, 10:57 AM
How many people would have ever even heard of Cayuga if not for the track? The drag strip has been there for as long as I can remember and suddenly it's a big problem? As with most disputes, it looks like it's in everyone's best interest to see that this gets worked out. It can't be too good for Cayuga's economy to lose the track.
turboawd
05-31-2002, 12:14 PM
That's stupid planning on Cayuga's part. Obviously some residents wanted them gone long ago and the permit issue leaked out and that was their chance. Calling into TMP was very arrogant.
A drag strip near Toronto sounds like a good idea but it would be next to impossible to get the permit to build it. Noise and environmenta concerns. It just takes one landowner to complain about harming their quality of life and its toast. Frankly, I can't blame them, would you want a track in ear shot of your backyard? It would take big dollars to construct effective noise barriers around any track.
Taylor
05-31-2002, 02:36 PM
You have to understand that the need for it is to curb street racing. So it's a bit of a moral issue for those complaining. Course the idea is to NOT build it in a residential area.
The media has the ability to sell the entire city on this. Environmentalists can bite me. It's that or it's on our streets.
The city was willing to fork over hundreds of millions to put on the Olympics which will not curb crime or deaths, but it's not willing to cough up the dollars to build a good facility to combat street racing? Guess the couple or so people that die each yet from it arn't worth it. Hell the insurance industry should want to chip in, it bet you street racing in this city costs them in excess of $1million in one year. How much would it cost to build a 1/4 mile track with good sound barriers?
There is still that airstrip downtown isn't there/ Downsview or something? What could be louder than an airstrip? could build the thing in a dome structure(s) so it could be done during the winter too.
Bah, people just arn't being creative enough :)
i have one word.....
downsview
ok a few more words....
or close down a 2 lane rd somewhere friday nights and sat nigts and turn it into an official drag race area?
well they get away with stuff like this cause groups like us don't say anything, not a peep, i say we should orgainize something along with all the other race groups and car clubs.....along with the media...
Taylor
05-31-2002, 03:03 PM
ADAM I'm with the shutting down of roads and all.. it's the most economicaly thing to do, but when you can't do it all the time, you give the street racers an excuse.
You also have to remember the issue with safety and a side street isn't exactly drag strip safe. Especially when it comes to spectating and things wandering onto the track.
That requires the cops to rope off the roads, you need a flat smooth piece of road too in an area where noise isn't an issue.
The good thing about it is it still keeps that street racing feel, instead of getting in line and tech registering and all that, but then safety becomes an issue and Canadians are about as anal as you get when it comes to safety. Who does tech inspection? What about helmets? (not required on drag strips but what about a city street with ditches or buildings to the left or right?
In/Near-City sanctioned strip. (obviously will become a bigger deal should Cayuga have to close it's doors). IF it doesn't then the street idea makes most sense, but how do you convince people it's safe when you're campaiging against the exact same thing. What? just because the police are there it's going to be safe? Nah. Sure you take oncoming traffic out of the equation, but is that enough?
SlowMo
05-31-2002, 04:00 PM
What a joke. As if people are really concerned about noise. Just look at how quickly all the new houses under the LBP flightpaths are selling. The problem really is the stigma of grass roots racing of any form - those who participate must be mad - making it an easy target for "normal" people who don't see the attraction. Whatever the case, this can't be good for us as motorsports enthusiasts.
ha ha ha you want noise....go listen in front of my house in brampton..its like a highway...i would love to have a neighbor like cayuga...it would be 80% quiter than what i live in now...
RICK3059
06-01-2002, 04:24 PM
I just sent an e-mail to TMP and asked if there are any open lapping days available in June or July. The response will dictate the answers.
Zeuser
06-03-2002, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by ADAM
i have one word.....
downsview
ok a few more words....
or close down a 2 lane rd somewhere friday nights and sat nigts and turn it into an official drag race area?
well they get away with stuff like this cause groups like us don't say anything, not a peep, i say we should orgainize something along with all the other race groups and car clubs.....along with the media...
So who's going to start this "group"? And how about getting the cooperation of streetracers? You think that's going to be easy? Some of these kids pretty much don't give a crap about any form of authority.
If you're going to start a project like this your main goal will have to be taking the kids off the streets and onto the track. That won't be easy at all.
It's the kids that are the biggest problem (in the eyes of the cops). By kids I mean the teens that just got their licenses and the younger 20 somethings that haven't grown up yet. They drive around trying to prove they're Vin Diesel or something. :rolleyes:
The more experienced streetracers usually know where to go and how to avoid the police and don't get caught. When the cops talk about "streetracers" it's usually the kids. Just look at those news reports on streetracing lately. God they really are kids!
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