Wear and Tear on your cars

[MazdaMatt]

Hey all,

I've recently (6 months ago) sold my "grampa mobile" and bought a 2002 Protege5. I want to start autocrossing in Spring '06! The only thing that worries me is the ongoing cost of running a car hard. I've been Obsessively (note the capital 'O') learning all the tricks of driving standard, so I'm not too concerned about grinding up my tranny beyond the norm.

I'm just wondering how much you guys wear down your cars? Are you constantly replacing broken or wearing parts because of your autocrossing? Let me know, since you've started what have you had to fix that you can attribute to autox (partially or fully) and on average, how much do you spend each season on repairs or consumables (brakes, tires, etc).

All the details I can get I will appreciate. I understand this is going to cost me some bucks, and I'm okay with that. I just don't want a 4 year old broken car next summer.

Cya at the races,
Matt

[gatherer]

so long as regular maintence is performed before it's needed then you'll be fine... other then tires wearing down nothing is really abused... then again maybe I'm not pushing my car hard enough

[Wedge]

Jason is right, as long as the car is in good shape, and has no problems, and the driver isn't a complete idiot. There shouldn't be any abnormal wear'n'tear.
My theory is: nothing should ever break, that wouldn't have broken anyways.
I ran my old Paseo in solo 2 and navigational rallying, and daily driving for many years. That car had over 200,000km on it, but I took good care of it. Over 5 years of hard driving, nothing ever broke. Except, that I went through 2 alternators in that time, which was due to the high load of the big Hella lights that I put on for rallying.

Things like brakes and tires will wear faster, but that's expected.

[Greg F]

The only things I've had to replace due to autox were tires and brake pads.

When I competed just for fun, I bought used tires for $30 to $35 each. Now that I compete for outright speed, I spend over $1000 a year easily. I probably spent over $2000 this year on performance accessories, excluding a new clutch.

As for the clutch, if your car is FWD or RWD, just dump the clutch on the launch to keep the clutch alive forever. I had to replace a clutch on my AWD, mostly due to its age and the added torque I was producing. To ensure the new clutch lasts a long time, I selected one with potential much higher than my engine has.

If you drive smoothly, you'll not only be fast, but your car will survive autocross easily.

[finboy]

i totally disagree..

it all depends on your first time out.. right there and then... you'll know if you hate it or love it

and if you love it.. say hello to canadian tire, princess auto, WTZ, JRP Chapters..and all the other places related to automotive stuff

look around, and ask a few of the regulars.. how many sets of tires/wheels they have, how often do they pull out the tools to do some minor tweeking

you'll be watching the buy and sell ads on different forums, joining a local club
and so on.. and so on....

the way it is in GTA..you can almost go to an event every weekend..

oil changes, brake work.. blah blah blah... will all be part of be part of your down time

200 bucks?? if your lucky

[haniforama]

It depends on your prep level...

Stock cars are cheaper to campain while finboy's turbocharged (not super) Miata with performance everything will be uber expensive.

I'd budget 100-120 an event to cover gas, brakes, tires, food, sunblock, maintenance.

Hanif

[Guillermo]

This year I competed in about 30 autoslaloms (6 minutes/day = 3 hours) and about 12 track days which was over 1800 km of track mileage (~20 hours).

Early in the spring I replaced the secondary wide band O2 sensor which started to fail the year before. The thermostate failed in the late spring in the middle of the week while I was driving to work. These are the only things that have ever "failed" or "broken" on my car and they are not even related to racing the car. Not bad since it's a 5 year old with 135,000 km.

This summer I wore out 1 set of front OEM honda pads and several R-compound tires. Spending money on advanced driver training courses will make you faster while putting less stress on your car and tires.

[miataboi]

a MOMENTUM car like an insight or stock civic... will wear little...

A mustang or a Talon... will take a lot more abuse and wear stuff more.


heavy cars, high-po cars... AWD cars... all wear more.



an underpowered, light car... with prepped suspension... can be REAL easy on wear items.




Finboy is TURBOcharged...

[miataboi]

start out slow... in stock... or SS... as it's like crack... and you'll want more... and more.

[bbqman]

Like Hanif says, it all depends on prep levels and commitment.

I do about 20 autocross days per year, half at the national level. I also travel over 30,000km in my summer and the car has to be top notch.

I replace the tune up parts twice a year, the timing belt every year and the clutch every other.
I wear out 1 set of rain tires travelling to events ( cant fit 8 in the car yet with co driver and gear).
I replace bushings on a rotating basis almost every year..... so yeah $1000+ per year is easy.

But locally, you can Solo a car without any additional expenses.

[thekid]

I'd say if your car is mostly stock, then like others have mentioned, brake pads and tires will be your biggest expenses. Depending on how involved you get you can get in to more wear items... but those ar ethe basics.

If you're interested in ideas for setting up your car, I'd suggest you visit toprotege.com, it's a fairly good resource and friendly bunch to help you out... especially with the proteges! There are 7-8 of us who are regulars in the AutoX scene....

[J.C.]

Hmm repairs and consumables... I think it would be safe to say we consumed our fair share. :cool:

[Greg F]

By the way, I didn't vote because the topic name and the poll question are different, making it unclear what is really being asked for. According to the topic name, wear and tear on the car is of interest, but according to the poll question, it seems all costs of running a car in Solo 2 is of interest.

PS: What are your wheel specs and tire size, Matt?

[MazdaMatt]

Thanks for all the quick answers. The poll was supposed to refer to the thread topic, but the answers say a lot more than the poll anyway.

I've got stock tires and rims 195/55-16. These tires are not very good and I planned on replacing them when the snow tires come off in the spring. If I just want to hit 6-8 events through the spring/summer would I be through with my new set by the summer's end? or though even more? I don't know if I'm going to put any money into prepping my car before I get out and try it once to see if I'm really going to be into it. And I like to improve myself before i improve my gear anyway.

I'll drop by that forum and check it out. Sounds good.

[thekid]

You sound like you're on the right track.... if you carefully select your summer tire, it should be able to get you through 6-8 events and the rest of the summer, but don't expect it to last much longer than that.

You have a decent handling car to start with so learning how to drive it like that first would definitely be beneficial.

[njansenv]

^ The answers are pretty much bang on. I used Azenis for 2 summers, and about 8 auto-x's. They'll still pass safety, though are a little slick on cold/wet roads. I love them.

Regarding reliability: stock cars kick butt. As you make more power, you'll break things, while suspension mods are nearly 'free' from a wear/reliability standpoint.

IF you decide to modify the drivetrain down the road, I can't stress the importance of well-thought out, conservative, quality mods. Better yet: OEM 'mods'. Power is a lot of fun, but not knowing if your daily driver will make it to work on Monday isn't. A few members of the board can probably attest to some of my experiences.

Basically (and most here would call this common sense): A bit more money spent on maintenance and reliability 'mods' WILL save money, downtime and headache, down the road.

I don't think you'll have ANY problems in a stock Mazda.

[MazdaMatt]

I know nothing about tires. I see this as a bit of an issue. My plan was to get a set of sporty rain tires. As for specifics, i'm lost. Any suggestions on tire choice, or better yet a place where i can learn to make my own choices?

Getting off topic a little, but whatever, we're talkin wear, and tires wear and I want tires... there, its been justified.

[Guillermo]

Consider trying your first few autoslaloms with your OEM all season tires.
You will put the most wear on your tires those first few times so you don't want to waste the top few millimeters of brand new high performance tires learning how to drive.

Talking about tires is fun, but you should start a new thread if you want to discuss which brands and models to consider.

[Marsh]

Wear and tear is a long term issue. If you keep your car for several years then solo-2 will cause normal items to come up more often. On the Prelude rear wheels bearings lasted about 100,00 km, which seemed close to average for the Prelude club. But fronts lasted only 175,000 which was earlier than most. A clutch should last the life of a car if driven gently, but I had to do one every 100,000 or so. That adds up over time. I also broke a motor mount, which was a note week link, but still something that only racers break.

[sjd]

I have a Protege5 as well and when I first started the only mods I had on the car were an AEM intake and a Mazdaspeed exhaust. I didn't mod the car for autox I just started autox having already done the mods. When I started I was on stock tires, the next year after getting hooked and slowly improving I added a stiffer rear sway bar, better brake pads and stickier street tires.

After improving quite a bit, I decided to jump in by installing better springs, struts and R-compound tires. However I choose the wrong springs and spent all year in various sates of frustration. As for wear and tear in addition to the usual pads and tires I did break a rear sway bar mount due to the stiffer sway bar at the beginning of the year.

If I had to do over again I would stay stock at first with the exception of brake pads. I also have since decided to build a dedicated Solo 1 & 2 car mainly because I wanted RWD. But the Protege5 is a very fun autox car and I will run it next year as well for a few events.

[Slowpoke]

STi's are expensive to campaign at the limit that gets a certain person all of his FTD's. If that car wasn't under warranty, imagine what 7 axles and two sets of struts would cost...

For me, I baby the axles but destroyed my clutch. :-)

Add in a good detailing once a year to buff out the cone rash.

I'd say $600 per year, minimum, for a car like ours. Not including tires.

[7plymaple]

Youll definitely be in the 0-200 dollar range. I have done arround 90 events on my Protege in the last 5 years. All I have had to change was a front wheel bearing, a transmission (my bad) and a bunch of front breaks.

[Travis]

Using a stock car, all I've done is wear my wear items faster (breaks, clutch, tires). It's hard to measure how much wear is autocross related except for tires which I'll attribute about ... all of it :eek:

Autocross is the cause of some rattles though. What's the cash value of 2 dash rattles? :p

It looks like the voters arn't including the cost of tires so I'm less than $200.

[JoeT]

When my car was stock and almost stock, it was bulletproof. Only standard oil changes, and I replaced the tires, only because I hated the RE92's that came with it as OEM tires. Car was used the first 1.5 years of it's life, close to stock.

2.5th year with usual bolt on's, only oil changes, and tires every season.

after the 2.5th year, car is Faaaaaaaar from stock, and that's where you're stretching the capabilities of the chassis, and associated components.

With almost 2.5 times the original power, 2 trannies, 2 rear differentials later, it's all good, except for a rear axle.

Moral of the story: If you keep it close to stock, expect not to spend too much on unexpected items. If you go waaaaaay beyond stock, then you gots to pay if you want's to play.

My .02 cents.

[Doug P]

A Camaro with a stock motor is at risk of losing the motor after time. Very expensive! :( Oil issues with the stock pan under heavy cornering.

The last sentence of section 6.8 E. of the rulebook says "Any oiling system component may be added, modified or substituted." This includes SS class and 2 points must be taken.

I was told that an aftermarket pan or adding an accumulator moves a car directly to ESP.

Adding an oil cooler is allowed in stock with no points. This is to minimize damage to the car. It seems to me that changing the pan or adding an accumulator so you don't lose the motor should also be allowed.

Six weeks ago I asked the CAC for a clarification on the rulebook as the sentence seems to allow the modification as long as the 2 points are taken. No reply yet. :(

[finboy]

A Camaro with a stock motor is at risk of losing the motor after time. Very expensive! :( Oil issues with the stock pan under heavy cornering.




if all F-body cars have a pan with poor baffles I would use 6.1 I




The last sentence of section 6.8 E. of the rulebook says "Any oiling system component may be added, modified or substituted." This includes SS class and 2 points must be taken.

I was told that an aftermarket pan or adding an accumulator moves a car directly to ESP.

Adding an oil cooler is allowed in stock with no points. This is to minimize damage to the car. It seems to me that changing the pan or adding an accumulator so you don't lose the motor should also be allowed.

Six weeks ago I asked the CAC for a clarification on the rulebook as the sentence seems to allow the modification as long as the 2 points are taken. No reply yet. :(

that last section of modifying external engine components should be cleaned up.

my question is, why is an oil pan considered an internal component?


under the Stock Category 6.3 I V

it appears to be related to keeping things mechanically safe for your vehicles drivetrain.. shouldn't the oil pan be listed here as well?

what other functions does an oil pan do for solo II?

[Doug P]

if all F-body cars have a pan with poor baffles I would use 6.1 I




that last section of modifying external engine components should be cleaned up.

my question is, why is an oil pan considered an internal component?


under the Stock Category 6.3 I V

it appears to be related to keeping things mechanically safe for your vehicles drivetrain.. shouldn't the oil pan be listed here as well?

what other functions does an oil pan do for solo II?

I missed 6.1.I Thanks Dave. I also agree with adding the pan and accumulator to 6.3.I.v.

I put my qustion to the Director I was told I would move directly to ESP. I asked for further clarification and my question has been put to the CAC but that was many weeks ago. I don't know when or if I will receive a reply but the idea time to minimize my costs would have been when my motor was out for rebuild.

The pan change and adding an accumulator are only to prevent damage to the motor.

I asked the Solo 1 group how they assessed points for these items and I was told that it as a free modification to protect the car and no points apply as there is no performance advantage.

[scrap master]

Pretty much what everyone else said is true for me too. Oil changes, brake pads, tires, and all the regular "consumable" items on your car can wear a little quicker. I also happened to bust some motor mounts (old), a heater hose (also old), and pop the block heater out the side of my engine block (over-revving). My driveline is stock, and bullet proof (other than what's said above) with 550,000kms on all original components, except it's on it's second clutch. I've done some mods to the susspension (springs,shocks,sways) and the chassis is getting tired now from the years of abuse. If you drive your car smooth, things won't break as much. My overall costs to auto-x for a year is quite cheap, as I do all my work myself, and old Volvo parts don't cost much either. I also drive a lot, so the car is regularly maintained anyways. Including gas to and from events, plus entry fee, plus food, and wear and tear on the car I'm looking at around $100 an event, maybe more if tire wear counts.

[Marsh]

If your competing on your street tires then you'll burn through them in a summer, even with only 8 events. You should have enough tread to wait for snow without too much danger, but they won't be of much use in the spring.

I started doing slaloms on my factory tires after a few months of street use in 1998. I had them completely slick, shoulder-to-shoulder, by the end of the WOSCA fall series in November. Mind you that was full WOSCA and Regional series starting in June (and 1 lapping day).

[slai]

I did 6-7 autoxes and 11 track days this year. Picked up the car new in March; had the rear axles replaced at the end of June, both rear wheel bearings replaced end of August, front rotor mid-Sept. All done under warranty but the technician did notice my rotors were blue. :o

[Greg A.]

I attended about 20 Solo 2 events this year, and had very little extra cost associated with the activity, outside of entry fees and transportation costs. I did break 3 wheel studs over the season while changing my wheels. That's an unusual thing, though. Anti-sieze seems to take care of that.

I attended about 5-10 events last year, and had no ill effects from the non-tire parts of the car, as far as I remember.

As for tire wear, I almost got a season out of my 50-70%-remaining RA-1s (treadwear 100), but before the final couple of events I corded the outside shoulders. Note: Aggressive driving on camber-challenged FWD cars on rough pavement does this. Consider remounting partway through the season if you notice uneven wear.

To be fair, my car is fairly new, a 2002 Civic, so some accelerated wear may not yet be noticed.

[finboy]

I attended about 20 Solo 2 events this year, and had very little extra cost associated with the activity, outside of entry fees and transportation costs. I did break 3 wheel studs over the season while changing my wheels. That's an unusual thing, though. Anti-sieze seems to take care of that.

I attended about 5-10 events last year, and had no ill effects from the non-tire parts of the car, as far as I remember.

To be fair, my car is fairly new, a 2002 Civic, so some accelerated wear may not yet be noticed.

bro... how can you snap 3 wheel studs?

[Marsh]

Actually I used to cross thread them on the Prelude all the time. I relized it was because the wheel nuts that Tire Rack sent me were too soft and they were getting damaged, then damaging the stud. I replaced the wheel nuts and solved the problem.

Also ARP studs aren't that expensive and they're free in stock.

[Greg A.]

Actually I used to cross thread them on the Prelude all the time. I relized it was because the wheel nuts that Tire Rack sent me were too soft and they were getting damaged, then damaging the stud. I replaced the wheel nuts and solved the problem.

Also ARP studs aren't that expensive and they're free in stock.

Exactly. The higher-grade parts will be installed next year. For now, my Honda dealer has been quite nice to fix this work under warranty. They're all Honda parts. Many folks find it hard to install a lug nut correctly, only to have it cross-thread while removing it.... :) I've done it 3 times.

[7plymaple]

Actually I used to cross thread them on the Prelude all the time. I relized it was because the wheel nuts that Tire Rack sent me were too soft and they were getting damaged, then damaging the stud. I replaced the wheel nuts and solved the problem.

Also ARP studs aren't that expensive and they're free in stock.

I got a set of nuts that were closed at one end with a set of rims that I bought used. But I noticed they were poor quality and the threads were worn out so I didnt use them. But I would like to get some that are closed on the outside for winter. Does anyone know any good brands that make these and where to get them?

[Marsh]

I got a set of nuts that were closed at one end with a set of rims that I bought used. But I noticed they were poor quality and the threads were worn out so I didnt use them. But I would like to get some that are closed on the outside for winter. Does anyone know any good brands that make these and where to get them?

Most "rice" shops will have these in bulk. Or you can buy them at Canadian Tire in 4 packs. Just make sure you get the correct seat for your wheels. You don't need anything really fancy, just not the dirt cheap walmart ones. The primary advantage to racing lugs is that they're lighter.

[finboy]

you guys finger starting them?

or using a cordless drill/impact gun?

cross threading while removing them??

you're just kidding... right?

[Greg A.]

No, not kidding. When kidding, I use a smiley.

The lugnuts go on as always - finger tight, with no problems. They're torqued to specification. The next time I try and remove them, however, the threads cross themselves. At that point there's nothing that can be done. Using a lot of force in the counterclockwise (removal) direction results in a snapped wheel stud.

I kept one to show the folks at the dealership, and they were no less surprised than you are.

It's happened enough now that I can recognize when the nut/stud combination is getting to its end of life - the lugnut doesn't screw on as easily as it used to, and the stud seems worn in places when examined closely.

[Guillermo]

Were your nuts and studs dirty with sand, stones and other debris :eek:

[max attack]

Were your nuts and studs dirty with sand, stones and other debris :eek:


Nothing worse than than a set of dirty nuts thats for sure. ;)

[7plymaple]

Most "rice" shops will have these in bulk. Or you can buy them at Canadian Tire in 4 packs. Just make sure you get the correct seat for your wheels. You don't need anything really fancy, just not the dirt cheap walmart ones. The primary advantage to racing lugs is that they're lighter.

Nice. Too bad I didnt think of this last weekend when I was telling my Brother in law what I wanted for Christmas.

[7plymaple]

No, not kidding. When kidding, I use a smiley.

The lugnuts go on as always - finger tight, with no problems. They're torqued to specification. The next time I try and remove them, however, the threads cross themselves. At that point there's nothing that can be done. Using a lot of force in the counterclockwise (removal) direction results in a snapped wheel stud.

I kept one to show the folks at the dealership, and they were no less surprised than you are.

It's happened enough now that I can recognize when the nut/stud combination is getting to its end of life - the lugnut doesn't screw on as easily as it used to, and the stud seems worn in places when examined closely.

If you can spin them on with your fingers but then theyre stuck when your trying to take them off then maybe your over tightening them? Only thing I can see happening is that your putting too much force and your stripping the threads when you torque them. Then when you go to loosen them your just mooooshing the nut metal and the stud mettal together untill they seize and then you keep on cranking untill you snap the stud.

Maybe your lug nuts might be cheep and have too big of an inside thread diameter and not enough of the thread is engaging for the amount of torque you put on. Thats what I noticed with a couple sets of lug nuts that I got with some used rims I bought.

[miataboi]

Nice. Too bad I didnt think of this last weekend when I was telling my Brother in law what I wanted for Christmas.


:eek:

You already married??? ;) :p
SHAME! :mad:

If not... that would make it your Sister's husband... then that means that you got a sister!!!!

WOO-HOO!
Hook a bruvva up!
:D

[7plymaple]

:eek:

You already married??? ;) :p
SHAME! :mad:

If not... that would make it your Sister's husband... then that means that you got a sister!!!!

WOO-HOO!
Hook a bruvva up!
:D

NOT MARRIED.

[Scracho]

I think like anything else preventative maintenance is key; if you’re always on top of things generally you should have to only worry about normal wear and tear items. I’m constantly inspecting and lubricating moving parts pretty much anywhere that there’s friction. This will be my first year in Solo 2 and I’m excited and I could only imagine replacing tires, brakes and maybe bushings, but other than that I hope to have no major setbacks.