Discussion on Used Cars for Sale...

[Sky_high]

I surf this forum quite a bit, but I rarely post. Today, I feel like stating my opinion on used cars (as new cars is a totally different issue)

Like most of you, we have the desire to participate in motorsport events, but our situation in life prevents us from pursuing it to our full capacity mainly due to financial situations (family obligations, work committements, etc...)

Most of us participate in motorsports events in our daily drivers, but some of us are fortunate to have a dedicated 'track' car.

I have noticed many individuals selling their street cars (mainly modified street cars) and track cars on this forum (in the 'For Sale' section in the Classified), due to the demographics and lifestyle of the people who surf this great forum.

However, I may be narrow minded, but I've noticed majority of the cars that are put up for sale are waaayy over priced. Stock, Modified, Track.... no discrimination.

1) Stock Cars-> I find majority of sellers ask WAY too much (and most of them lower the price by a couple of thousand if it's not selling, but then state, 'lowered to $xxxx FIRM'). Right there, I think most potential buyers loose interest, cause the price is still too high. By the way, for the guys who have the 'special limited cars', your not exempt, most of you have pushed the limits of the car, and have abused it in some manner. (especially if you drive in Solosprint events). Your car DEPRECIATES in value.

2) Modified Cars-> So you put in quality aftermarket parts (better suspension, engine, tranny, etc...) to make the car better than a stock one. That doesn't mean the car has appreciated in value in relation to the parts that you installed. Your car still DEPRECIATES in value. If your car is worth $10,000 retail, don't ask $30,000 for your modified car. Not to mention the fact that most modifed cars will be difficult to insure, plus there is a major 'reliability' issue for the purchaser.

3) Track Car-> Simple..your car has been abused. Plus, most likely the car has had contact with some object (other car, wall, etc...). Okay, it may be fast, but the potential buyer is also assessing their risk in the purchase. It's rare that someone will want to pay top $$ for a used track car, as these cars also depreciate in value.

I also think other major point on why these cars don't sell is:

A) People usually don't have more than $10,000 lying around. If so, it usually goes towards investments like the house or a wife (if you call a wife an investment). Other monetary issues can also qualify (low paying job, high cost of living now a days, etc..)

B) Storage...not everyone is fortunate to have space to store equipment, let alone a car.

Okay, so I stated my opinion for all to hear.

Let the masses disprove my theory (I'm ready for the negative remarks).

Jeremy W.

[Crusher45]

I surf this forum quite a bit, but I rarely post. Today, I feel like stating my opinion on used cars (as new cars is a totally different issue)

Like most of you, we have the desire to participate in motorsport events, but our situation in life prevents us from pursuing it to our full capacity mainly due to financial situations (family obligations, work committements, etc...)

Most of us participate in motorsports events in our daily drivers, but some of us are fortunate to have a dedicated 'track' car.

I have noticed many individuals selling their street cars (mainly modified street cars) and track cars on this forum (in the 'For Sale' section in the Classified), due to the demographics and lifestyle of the people who surf this great forum.

However, I may be narrow minded, but I've noticed majority of the cars that are put up for sale are waaayy over priced. Stock, Modified, Track.... no discrimination.

1) Stock Cars-> I find majority of sellers ask WAY too much (and most of them lower the price by a couple of thousand if it's not selling, but then state, 'lowered to $xxxx FIRM'). Right there, I think most potential buyers loose interest, cause the price is still too high. By the way, for the guys who have the 'special limited cars', your not exempt, most of you have pushed the limits of the car, and have abused it in some manner. (especially if you drive in Solosprint events). Your car DEPRECIATES in value.

2) Modified Cars-> So you put in quality aftermarket parts (better suspension, engine, tranny, etc...) to make the car better than a stock one. That doesn't mean the car has appreciated in value in relation to the parts that you installed. Your car still DEPRECIATES in value. If your car is worth $10,000 retail, don't ask $30,000 for your modified car. Not to mention the fact that most modifed cars will be difficult to insure, plus there is a major 'reliability' issue for the purchaser.

3) Track Car-> Simple..your car has been abused. Plus, most likely the car has had contact with some object (other car, wall, etc...). Okay, it may be fast, but the potential buyer is also assessing their risk in the purchase. It's rare that someone will want to pay top $$ for a used track car, as these cars also depreciate in value.

I also think other major point on why these cars don't sell is:

A) People usually don't have more than $10,000 lying around. If so, it usually goes towards investments like the house or a wife (if you call a wife an investment). Other monetary issues can also qualify (low paying job, high cost of living now a days, etc..)

B) Storage...not everyone is fortunate to have space to store equipment, let alone a car.

Okay, so I stated my opinion for all to hear.

Let the masses disprove my theory (I'm ready for the negative remarks).

Jeremy W.

So?

[Maddog]

Although there isn't much to reply to this, I do agree somewhat. This also applies to non-track cars. Whatever money you put into a car to make it go faster, or make it look better is usally not "recoopable" (if that's a word), well not to the extent you would like.

There's probably the emotional aspext of selling something like that....well I know it does for me anyhow. Maybe subconcsiously people jack the price because they don't really want to sell. ;)

[Crusher45]

All I was getting at was so what if they are high priced. You don't have to buy it. I see crap listed in the paper too for a high price. You call them up and ask why so high? They reply, that's what it went for on Barret-Jackson. If someone wants to pay me $400K for my '85 Vette as in Chevetteas that's what I asked for it so be it. Who are we to critisize selling prices.

[soloZ]

Although there isn't much to reply to this, I do agree somewhat. This also applies to non-track cars. Whatever money you put into a car to make it go faster, or make it look better is usally not "recoopable" (if that's a word), well not to the extent you would like.




This is a good reason to keep all of the stock parts, also good if you are a mechanic or have a really good friend to switch out the parts so you can make or recoop some money on.

[Sky_high]

All I was getting at was so what if they are high priced. You don't have to buy it. I see crap listed in the paper too for a high price. You call them up and ask why so high? They reply, that's what it went for on Barret-Jackson. If someone wants to pay me $400K for my '85 Vette as in Chevetteas that's what I asked for it so be it. Who are we to critisize selling prices.

Wow...quick replies.

But my school of thought is: It's what the buyers are willing to pay, that sets the market value.

Basically, supply and demand... you supply a car at XXX dollars, but majority of potential buyers come well under your requested amount. Then logically, the market is dictating to the seller that it's priced too high, and lower the price to market value to sell the car. Correct?

[thekid]

Wow...quick replies.

But my school of thought is: It's what the buyers are willing to pay, that sets the market value.

Basically, supply and demand... you supply a car at XXX dollars, but majority of potential buyers come well under your requested amount. Then logically, the market is dictating to the seller that it's priced too high, and lower the price to market value to sell the car. Correct?

Sure, that's more or less correct, but if the owner isn't in a hurry to get rid of the car, then he can afford to hold out until the right buyer comes along.

While alot of what you said is true, there have also been some fantastic deals on this forum, like fully prepped race cars, being sold for less than what the stock equivalent would be sold for. Some of these properly prepped cars, especially Grand Am Cup or Speed World Challenge cars have had well over $50k dumped in to them, and they sell for only a small fraction of that. I think it can go both ways, and when you have a truely motivated seller they'll price the car accordingly.

[finboy]

i don't get your point...

you've stated the obvious

whats to discuss??


if anything... most items on posted for sale on this forum are pretty decent deals

guys end up buying wheels and tires.. even if they don't want them

[Crusher45]

i don't get your point...

you've stated the obvious

whats to discuss??


if anything... most items on posted for sale on this forum are pretty decent deals

guys end up buying wheels and tires.. even if they don't want them
The Fin has spoken.
I think someone is bored.
I think they need to go racing.
I think the green flag drops around 10am this Saturday at the Minden Fairgrounds. Come join us.

[abrracing]

Jeremy, you obviously mistook this site for autotrader.ca. I only have 22 years in the car business so I think its safe to voice my opinion. The cars listed in this forum are usually "specialty cars" and the parts are "specialty parts". Nobody expects the general public to be car shopping or parts shopping on this site, most people know and expect they will pay a premium. The one fact about the used car business is " a car is worth what someone will pay for it". What you deem as excessive or overpriced may be what others consider the deal of the century.

btw---this was about the weirdest post I have on this site so far! I dont have a clue why you would have posted this to begin with!
________
ZOLOFT DEATH (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/zoloft/)

[Steven Scala]

I think the green flag drops around 10am this Saturday at the Minden Fairgrounds. Come join us. http://www.casc.on.ca/other/newfolder/hijackarea.jpg

[finboy]

btw---this was about the weirdest post I have on this site so far! I dont have a clue why you would have posted this to begin with!

i just sprayed rice all over my computer!!

werd mang.. i read his inital post 3 times.. and i'm still stuck here scratching my nuts and eating cold leftover rice

[rmicroys]

<snip>

Let the masses disprove my theory (I'm ready for the negative remarks)

What's there to disprove? Ya, often cars listed here are expensive, sometimes there are deals. Don't like the price, ignore it, and get over it. Like the price and the item, buy it. Like the item, don't like the price, call the seller, negotiate, and if you can get it to a price you like, buy it. 'nuf said.

If you don't have 10k$ "lying around" - then you can't afford to go racing. Don't race a car bought with borrowed money. If you "wad it up" - that's a huge mistake. Not much money in twisted metal.

[thgear]

dude, did u only learn half of economics or what?


yes in theory supply and demand, two seperate curves, meet at a point, the market price

but that doesnt mean that thats exactly how it is, and where it SHOULD GO, the other extreams of the market still exit.

there are things that cost alot of money that few people buy, and things that cost no money that alot of people buy.

some people have money to waste just because they have too much of it, to them dumping 5 grand to buy a rolex or a 20 000 dollar "sports brake" option on a porche is NOTHING, thats like me buying a coke for a dollar... its pocket change to them.

maybe someone browsing this forum with enough cash in his pocket seets a "race-ready track car", he doesnt want the hassle of buying a car, modding it, learning to mod it, he honestly couldnt care less, he wants a car that has a track record of being fast, hes gonna pay whatever the person wants for it,hes gonna drive it, its gonna break, and hes gonna buy another one.

yes sir, as hard as it is to belive, people like this DO exist, and there are ALOT of them

so open you eyes a bit to the world around you, not everyone is as broke as you and me :)

[7plymaple]

Jeremy are you venting frustrations of not being able to afford something in the for sale section of "this great forum"? :P

[Sky_high]

Jeremy are you venting frustrations of not being able to afford something in the for sale section of "this great forum"? :P

Sort of, but not exactly...hard to explain.

Many of you bring up valid points which I did not think of at the time. I just thought I'd voice my opinion and see how people would react, I guess.

True, this forum (and market) is focused to the car enthusiast, and should expect to pay a premium on certain products and vehicles, but at the same time the seller should know that his vehicle may not necessaryily be that much in demand.

Case in point....the recent RX-7 for sale. The guy is selling the whole shabang for $12,000. No one has bought it...and he is desparate to sell. Why? Is that car priced too high? Is there no demand for modified BIG @$$ turbo'd RX-7?

Oh......and yes, I had nothing to do at work Monday morning when I wrote this because my boss left for vacation. :)

[thekid]

Case in point....the recent RX-7 for sale. The guy is selling the whole shabang for $12,000. No one has bought it...and he is desparate to sell. Why? Is that car priced too high? Is there no demand for modified BIG @$$ turbo'd RX-7?

That might be true, but consider this, you'd probably be hardpressed to find the equivalent stock RX-7 for that price... and this one has how much extra money dumped in to it?

[Rick S]

That car is definitely worth the money, if not more. There's just not a huge market for a car like that. To someone who is looking for a full out race car that needs a trailer and crew that car is a steal, there just aren't many people who need something like that.

Hell I'd buy that thing if I wasn't a broke student.

[13inches]

The RX-7 is a fragile case as well, everyone knows those turbo motors aren't exactly bulletproof. $12k now, but how much more if its not tuned well and ready to go poof? No knock on that specific seller, just a case in point....

[glh]

Great topic I to have been in the car bussness a long time I could tell you some crazy stories
How about a guy last summer sell a 69 Mustang GT 4 speed car all in parts but all there for $1000 ya $1000 and not to me
Or the guy that bought a 92 S10 for $5000 and it didnt last a month
Suppy demand and being in the right place at the right time there have been great deals on here and on other fourms.
I have more into my corrent race car project than I could have bought that rx7 but I started mine 2 years ago and hope to have it racing this summer

Ahhh just food for thought

Steve

[karlt]

"What the market will bear." Those of us who post here (and elsewhere, including trader.ca ;-) price our cars (and trucks and trailers) at what we believe we'll be able to sell them for. Most of us are not dreaming, but I think some are optimistic.

For example, I have a Grand Am Cup-spec BMW Z3 for sale currently for US$25k. I think a lot of guys would figure that's a lot of money, and it is. However, as a tool for running a successful GAC team, it's a steal. The original build cost on the Z3 was over US$100k in 2000. Other cars that run in the series, and have been beaten by a Z3 include cars that have just sold, used, for $85k. In my books that makes the Z3, which is a proven turnkey ready-to-race car, a pretty good deal. That said, it's going to need the right buyer (someone like me two years ago).

The RX7 is an interesting car. I bet there's well over $100k in it. However, it's unproven in recent years. It definitely needs work before _I_ would want to track it. It's a work in progress, and I bet a lot of guys are concerned about that unknown, and so it sits. Also, it's probably a bit much for the average regional racer, both from an upkeep and driving stand-point. We all know it costs a LOT more to turn 1:30s than 1:38s! But again, for the right buyer, this car is a good deal. But for someone who says "I don't have $10k lying around", it's clearly going to bankrupt you.

Which could pretty much sum up racing in general. Make sure you can afford it before you jump in! Or get into go karts...

My $0.02

-k-

[Sky_high]

Hmmm, interesting... this 'for sale' thread, is starting to sound like my topic.

Sale of WRX (http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=7657)

[malcolm]

I disagree with track cars being "abused". Most are taken care of really well... how many road cars have their oil changed multiple times in a season? how many are subject to comprehensive nut-and-bolt checks? how many finely tuned to ensure maximum performance? (in the case of the road car, that would lean more towards efficiency than anything)

Essentially, people let their road cars rot... they forget to change the oil... brake fluid has never even been thought of... Why? because it's not critical for a road car like it is for a race car.

Like every rule, there is an exception or two, but you can usually find those exceptions in the DNF section of any race-results page.