Stock-class legal seats

[roooo]

Are these seats ok for stock class? I assume that every seat that has reclining capabilities is fine .. these are fixed-back, non FIA approved seats that aren't designed for racing.

MOMO RS (http://www.upgrademotoring.com/seats_interior/rs.jpg)
OMP Strada 2000 (http://www.ompracing.it/prod/seats/ha639en.htm)
Sparco Roadster (http://www.sparcousa.com/pseats_street.asp?id=97)

I wouldn't want to be bumped up just because of new seats, but most reclining ones cost a pretty penny.

[tanney]

Fixed back seats are NOT allowed in Stock Classes unless you are using the step up rule from a lower than 1 stock class. (e.g if you have a B2 car and use the 1 point to step up to B1. If you are B1 and use a point, you move up to BSS.)

The one piece seat is a freebee in SS, SP or Mod classes, but not in stock.

5.10.6 - The front seat(s) may be replaced provided the replacement seat(s) is fully padded, upholstered, of similar size and is securely attached (example: Recaro and similar sport seats which recline and tip forward). Race seats (typically one -piece metal or fibreglass bucket with fixed back, upholstered or non upolstered specifically designed for racing), are not permitted. A front bench-style seat may be replaced with two bucket stype seats.

[roooo]

bah.. those aren't race seats though.
why is fixed-back such a big deal? the momo RS is exactly the same design as the RS 2 except the RS 2 reclines... there is no difference in the level of support provided.

if recline ability is the sole discriminator of legality for stock class, then that rule is too long-winded and should be re-written to indicate as such. :p

[blur]

What about a seat like the Sparco Roadster?
It specifically says it's not designed for racing. Sure looks like a race seat though. Hmm, fully padded, yup. Looks like it's upholstered too.

http://www.speedwaremotorsports.com/seat/sparco.asp

[tanney]

Personally, any one of the seats that are mentioned here would give "me" an advantage. If I was using one of these seats, ALL of my attention and effort would be on driving and not on keeping my butt in the centre of the seat and my legs from flailing (is that a word?) all over the place.

Being 6'4", in a import, my legs stick out in every direction and a lot of effort is given to make sure that my legs are braced and my knees not bouncing off of things.

All of the seats with none reclining backs have very high solid bolstering on the sides that help keep your butt and legs more secure.

That being said, if the Solo II director decides to do away with that rule, I will of course buy a fixed seat and I will reap any advantage because of it I can. I have driven a car in solo 2 runs with a fixed seat and as I said earlier, it gives me personally an advantage. So, Roland, do I need an advantage?

[rpr]

Wes, have you considered a 4/5 point harness? It will give you the same effect as the seat, but doesn't cost you any points, from what I remember. Or maybe it does, not sure. I certainly find it to be a big help.

And no, I don't use it on the street, it co-exists happily with the stock belts.

[roooo]

Who's Roland? ;)

Anyway .. Wes, if you feel you are more comfortable and can drive better with better seats than why not get something?

If you take a look at the MOMO RS and RS 2, you'll see the support given is exactly the same. And no more support than you would get with something like a Sparco Torino or Recaro.
http://www.upgrademotoring.com/seats_interior/rs.jpg
http://www.upgrademotoring.com/seats_interior/rs2.jpg

The Sparco Roadster is probably the most borderline because it's not "fully" upholstered, and it's a fiberglass shell.

But, seeing as two of the RS can be had for less than the price of a single Torino, well .. maybe you can understand why I would ask about this in the first place.

I'm not saying that the rule should be removed, but if a seat is clearly not a racing bucket (which should be easy to tell by looking) then it shouldn't count for points. Just because it doesn't recline, does not mean that a seat has more support than your average sport seat.

[tanney]

Tom, yeah I use the lap portion of a 5-point in the '87, so tight it almost hurts. The problem is the legs, in all my cars. The left leg bounces of the window handle on the door and the right leg off the console (except in the '87 Civic it bounces off the shifter). If there were higher, solid bolsters, that wouldn't be as much as an issue.

Also Tom, there are safety issues with the use of a of 4 or 5-point harness in a vehicle without rollover protection (a roll cage).

Rowan, (sorry about mistake with the name) first of all, the solid back seat is a safety issue as well as a performance issue. In the event of a rollover (highly unlikely in Solo 2) a solid back seat would not give as a reclining seat would in the event of a roof collaspe.

As far as getting a full reclining "sport" seat, well, with a '87 and a '89 POS Hondas, that type of money is spent on new clutches, transmissions, wheel bearings, replacement suspension parts, bondo, brakes, rotors, TIRES and any other part I seem to always need to keep these POS running. (I have access to a one piece "race" seat at substantially less cost if the rules permitted it).

I do not like to break or event bend rules to my advantage, that's not the way I like to play. I don't make these rules (although I am becoming quite knowledgable about them and do have some input).

If you have a specific concern about the rules, you should drop Robb Smith a note outlining the rule you would like changed, athe proposed change and the reasoning behind it.

[rpr]

Wes, have you considered extending the steering column, so you can sit farther away, thus giving your legs some room to stretch? Obviously the pedals will still be ok, the shifter might be an issue though.

Just a thought.

[tanney]

Tom, yep, considered that. The seat will actually move back two more knotches in the CRX, but them my arms are straight on the steering wheel (which could be fixed by extending the steering column) but I can't put the car in third or fifth gear properly (I can just reach first with my finger tips, not ideal).

I am trying to put a fith gen Civic seat in my third gen Civic, complete with the seat sliders (it's actually my wife's car). Sonia, being 5'3" and me being 6'4", the seat HAS to be able to move forward and back, so I can't do the easy thing and fix mount it for me. Also in this case, I would like the seat mounted lower than stock so my big head isn't cocked sideways over to the sun roof.

[rpr]

Yeah, that could be a problem. If you really wanted to do it, you could have a shifter made, or modified, to extend it back a few inches. Now that I think about it, if you tell me how much it needs to be extended, I have a spare shifter from the CRX that Darren could cut and weld for you.

[tanney]

I'd be a little more interested in a custom seat mounting braket.......but thanks for the offer, I may talk to Darren about that or the seat mount.

[rpr]

That should be possible as well. Hope it works out for you, as long as I'm not in your class!

[soloZ]

rpr "That should be possible as well. Hope it works out for you, as long as I'm not in your class!"


I liked that one hehehehe if you modifeid your shift linkage and steering coloum wouldn't that put you in a different class :p.

[roooo]

Hey Wes, no problem. not an uncommon mix-up.
I hear where you're comin' from about seat money going elsewhere .. (mostly towards my rent ;) The lower price of the fixed-back sport seats is attractive.

Is that really a good thing if the seat crumples on you in event of a roll-over?

Skunk2 makes a civic shifter that has a kink in it.. not sure if it goes in the right direction for you (away from the console) or not.

[rpr]

I just realized that if you shorten the shift linkage bar, you will move the shifter rearwards. I thought of it because I just drove my Civic for the first time as a 5spd, and I couldn't figure out why the shifter felt different from my CRX, then it came to me that I had a ZC in the CRX which moves the shift linkage forward, and the shifter itself rearward. I prefer it farther rearward, but hey, that's me.

[tanney]

Yeah, I'll agree with you, I like the shifter further back as well.

The shifter that was in the car before I gernaded (sp) the transmission was sawed off about 1-1/2 inches lower than the stock one and it was much easier to reach and I didn't bounce my knee off it all the time. I just couldn't get the shifter knob to stay either on or facing the right direction. The linkage didn't want to seperate from the blown up transmission, so I just replaced the entire linkage with another stock one that came with the transmission I bought. Oh well!

[soloZ]

Ok you guys are confusing me here, how do you move a shifter farther back from the front of the car by shortening the linkage??? wouldn't this make the linkage shorter bringing it closer to the front of the car??

[rpr]

If you've ever seen a Honda shift linkage, it should make sense. The shifter itself goes through the floor, and attaches to the linkage like a lever (hence the name shift lever!). The linkage is a bar that goes to the transmission. If you shorten the linkage bar, you draw the end away from the transmission closer to the front, which causes the shift lever to tilt backwards, towards the rear of the car. Not sure if other manufacturers are the same.

[soloZ]

Ok I think I got you now

kinda like this right
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[rpr]

Yes, sort of. This explains it better:

http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/albums/album43/ady.jpg