Course design discussion

[13inches]

As prompted by this SCCA thread:
http://sccaforums.com/forums/thread/181397.aspx

What course design elements do you dislike? 1st-gear pinturns seem to be a big one down there.....

[gatherer]

I personally hate it when the flow of a course gets interupted. like having a mid-second gear section interupted by a first gear squeeze between the cones gate that is so small there is no choice of line available.

I hate not having a choice in the line I take.

[thekid]

I prefer the open flowing courses as well... line choice is key, I find it can really separate the field vs. a course where there is only one line...

I'm not a big fan of pin turns, or anything that forces you drop down to 1st gear right at the end, after doing the entire thing in second...

I don't mind a increasing or decreasing slaloms, but can't say i'm a huge fan of slaloms that both increase and decrese back and forth.

[Piotrov]

I must agree with the above.

Im by no meants great with choosing lines however i think open courses are great because i can see what different lines people chose and it leaves alot of room for me to learn and experiment.

I also dont like going in a circle. The loops im not too found of.

As for pin turns. I dont mind them as long as its not a direct drop down from 2nd gear. Like Jason said. It disrupts the flow.

But what do i know anyway :p

[Stan944]

I agree with the above too. Sections too tight that there is no room to run various lines give an unfair advantage to the smaller cars. And hairpins also give advantage to smaller cars, especially when you can't make a tighter radius in an average-sized car. And the combination of the two is the worst! Luckily I've been to only one event that had such an evil combination.

[h-bomb]

Run the HADA series and you'll get to see first hand what I like to run :D

[Marsh]

Lock-to-Lock maneuvers are just about the only thing that tick me off. I don't mind one pin-turn per course.

[yellowhotshoe]

If there is a way to write the elimination of 'Pin Turns' into the rules, I'm all for it.

Open, flowing courses with a selection of lines and a good decreasing slalom thrown in are primo IMO. Of course, the odd 'Drag Launch' doesn't hurt either :D

[tanney]

Tight and technical with fast flowing sections.

I love Chicago boxes, offsets and transitions......

Some sections should allow for one line and one line only.

If I want fast and wide open I'll go out for some Solo 1!

[Logan]

"design the best course while considering the venue available"

[SE-R Racer]

Tight and technical with fast flowing sections.

I love Chicago boxes, offsets and transitions......

Some sections should allow for one line and one line only.

If I want fast and wide open I'll go out for some Solo 1!
Exactly!

[Marsh]

Tight and technical with fast flowing sections.

I love Chicago boxes, offsets and transitions......

Some sections should allow for one line and one line only.

If I want fast and wide open I'll go out for some Solo 1!

Well said. I have a bad feeling about safety with the course design mob screeming for faster and faster. WOSCA doesn't hold fast events and even we've had a couple of close calls last year.

Fast and flowing aren't the same thing. You have to think about when to slow somebody down and when you do slow them down enough to be solidly in a lower gear, not kissing the limiter and then back to 2nd.

[finboy]

this might sound dumb.. but mco has created wicked course designs in 2005

they take turns with course designs, and the results were awesome

some tight sections.... but not BUS STOP style sections... they use TRAIN STOPS now, just enough to get on the brakes.. but not enough where you almost want to put the car in park

gates are wide enough, and they have second gear type of flow.. some of you remember the last regional held at the corel center... they've continued
that kind of fun ever since then!!

all of their events last year were amazing

50 second plus....mainly 2nd gear flow, variety, easy to navigate, simple but still very challenging they've capped the scored runs at 6 but continue to run
"fun runs" after

If the mco regional/invitational happens... it will totally be worth the trip

certain clubs are venue limited.. but thinking about it.. the bronte go is one of the largest/best places around... yet for the most part of it.. they have a lot of very tight sections in their designs.....

the HADA/Comp weekend should be interesting... same lot.. different course designers

[7plymaple]

I think Solo 2 should keep the tight and non flowing stuff alive. Its a test of another extreme of car controll that doesnt appeal to everyone. Its a different flavour of solo. I say pick your flavour and enter either solo 1 or 2 accordingly.

I love walking a course and coming up to a section that totally kills the "flow" and thinking "Damn! How my gonna get through that?" I also like seeing people with faster cars than me get stumped by sections like that. :D

[finboy]

this is all pretty subject to what kind of car you drive

some don't care about the design... and enjoy the sport for what it is...

others are so "my car" bias it silly

variety is the key.. tight wide open.. just don't kill the flow..

flow is important for everything...

movies
food
romance

flow mang... flow!!!

sometimes.. you do an event.. and there are sections that flow and have rythem

nothing worse in a slalom section where you can't "dance" the car back and forth.. regardless of the car you drive


i'd take a nice flowing course over a higher speed course anytime

flow mang... flow

[finboy]

I think Solo 2 should keep the tight and non flowing stuff alive. Its a test of another extreme of car controll that doesnt appeal to everyone. Its a different flavour of solo. I say pick your flavour and enter either solo 1 or 2 accordingly.

I love walking a course and coming up to a section that totally kills the "flow" and thinking "Damn! How my gonna get through that?" I also like seeing people with faster cars than me get stumped by sections like that. :D

you should try the BMW events... what your describing is exactly how they design their events

start early.. and end by 1pm

[Slowpoke]

I hate drag launches. (TLMC does a start gate right)

I'll put up with anything else.

One downshift per course to first for a pin-turn or other tight section is fine.

I don't like constant mid-throttle and one steering wheel position for a long time. (Duoro) I want the opportunity to use horsepower in some locations.

I like big sweepers with little jogs in them or tightening sections to destabilize the car (TLMC). Risk of spinning (with lots of run-off area) that rewards those who can dance on the edge without going over. And for those that go over that edge, it's entertainment for the spectators.

Actually, I think TLMC should design all courses for all clubs. Yeah.

[J.C.]

Stop boxes with a corner just prior to the box can get really interesting when your ABS decides to release the rear brakes because you have one wheel in the air. :eek:

[J.C.]

Actually, I think TLMC should design all courses for all clubs. Yeah.

It would be nice to get out to all of the TLMC events but out of the 8 events they will have this year only 3 events do not conflict with the regionals. Basically you can not do both. :(

[Greg F]

I don't like sections where I need three hands to operate the car.

I'm OK with drag launches, but I don't like when there is a 90º drag launch out of the box, since it's far too easy to hit cones before you're even out of the box. This style of start box also abuses the front CV joints too much, I think.

[andrew1984]

i honestly like drag launches.


/sarcasm on/


heck, we should just run a straight line of gates for a 1/4 mile and have a pin turn back into the start box. 3 feet to accelerate and 3 feet to stop... yeah... it sounds GREAT! :cool:

[Slowpoke]

You forgot to turn your sarcasm off.

I don't want to spend the money to upgrade all of my axles and hubs just for the start of an AutoX course. Thus, until I make enough torque that I can break axles from a rolling start, I hate drag launches.

[Greg F]

I wonder if it's OK to put four tiny water puddles in the start box. They'll be gone by the time the car is gone.

[gatherer]

2006 Course designers handbook is out.

http://home.houston.rr.com/rogerthereal/