Protests/Appeals

[13inches]

http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/06-4-fastrack.pdf (Page 14, half way down)

Protest filed on Feb 19th at the event, and ruled on the same day
Appeal filed on (?)
Appeal hearing held March 6th
Results published on March 20th

stir, stir, stir......

[Marsh]

This was dealt with in my report re the last the appeal in CASC-OR autoslalom championship, and I believe clear guidelines were being laid out in the new rule book.

[tanney]

Gee wouldn't it be great of the people running the show were getting paid to do so. If this was my full time job, things would have been resolved and done much faster then when I have to work around my work schedule and my personal schedule....

[Crusher45]

Gee wouldn't it be great of the people running the show were getting paid to do so. If this was my full time job, things would have been resolved and done much faster then when I have to work around my work schedule and my personal schedule....
Wow you have a work schedule? You have a life? Wow, I'm impressed. Wished I had a life.
:eek:

Do what I do, deny all protests then you won't have appeals.
:D

[gatherer]

Do what I do, deny all protests then you won't have appeals.
:D

Crusher I see where you get your nickname :p

[andrew1984]

great. now wheres my trophy? :D

[Crusher45]

great. now wheres my trophy? :D
At the store. Pick out a nice great big one.
:eek:

[SE-R Racer]

Gee wouldn't it be great of the people running the show were getting paid to do so. If this was my full time job, things would have been resolved and done much faster then when I have to work around my work schedule and my personal schedule....
Funny too how everyone likes to whine, but when elections roll around nobody steps up to do the job....

[13inches]

Funny too how everyone likes to whine, but when elections roll around nobody steps up to do the job....
Its also funny...

...how everyone is quick to jump on the "w-word" bandwagon. Read the posts more carefully and let me know who's actually doing the whining....

...how I don't see your name here. (http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=7948)

...how money seems to be an issue in a volunteer based sport

[opal]

People.
Please.
Knock it off already.

The issue is done and over with. It's a new season. We can wallow in the past or we can move on and try to improve in the future.

Your call.

[finboy]

People.
Please.
Knock it off already.

The issue is done and over with. It's a new season. We can wallow in the past or we can move on and try to improve in the future.

Your call.


true dat..

but like everything in life.. people need closure to move on and go forward

from what i've seen, apparently the 2005 protests/appeals are done and over with... but speak to the players involved

they think the whole process was a joke.. that's the sad part

people leave club series/events for personal reasons.. people quit the regional series because of the wrong reasons

its a pitty really

[opal]

true dat..

but like everything in life.. people need closure to move on and go forward

from what i've seen, apparently the 2005 protests/appeals are done and over with... but speak to the players involved

they think the whole process was a joke.. that's the sad part

people leave club series/events for personal reasons.. people quit the regional series because of the wrong reasons

its a pitty really

Agreed, but how is this sort of thread getting "closure"?
People learn from mistakes and they find ways to not repeat them. If you want to be instrumental in the problem-solving, then help the committee (http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=7948) to do it.
Bluntly, ask for what you want in clear, non-combative language and maybe you'll get it.

[finboy]

Bluntly, ask for what you want in clear, non-combative language and maybe you'll get it.

i think it starts off that way... then things get personal and ugly

it shouldn't..

but for a series that is supposed to be the "best/most competitive" around Ontario..

people expect the bar to be raised at all levels...

competition should be #1 and fun should be #2

for club stuff.. it should be geared more towards the fun stuff.. hense less beef at club levels (probably no grief at the club levels actually)

btw I messaged someone to offer help for the committee... no response.. no problem

was this thread started to shed light on someting? or just to stir the pot??

i don't know.... i just know it ain't always pot pouri

[tanney]

Bluntly, ask for what you want in clear, non-combative language and maybe you'll get it.

Well said!

[13inches]

This was dealt with in my report re the last the appeal in CASC-OR autoslalom championship, and I believe clear guidelines were being laid out in the new rule book.
Marsh,

Can you please post a copy of this report?

Thanks!

[tanney]

Marsh,

Can you please post a copy of this report?

Thanks!
No! The protest and appeal reports were pulled from the web page at orders from above.

[gatherer]

the SCCA only Posts their decisions in Fast track AND it's only the decisions of Appeals.

Things that are not posted by the SCCA that have been asked to be posted here in this region:

1) the original protest/appeal submitted
2) the decision of the protests (because these are posted at the event)

for the first one it's kinda hard to post it in the protest/appeal I was involved in. why? because the original protest was submitted in hand wirtting. even if it was scanned and posted I'm sure my chicken scratch would be hard to make out, online. The Appeal that was submitted was a huge document, lots of time was spent in preparing it (while I didn't prepare it it was obvious that time was spent on it) and due to it's size scanning and posting it on the web would be hard to do. Not to mention time consuming. As far as I can tell from the protest/appeal involving myself, both parties involved, know the result and have recieved satisfactory notification of the result. (I have not heard of the other party involved in the protest/appeal I was involved in complaining about it)

should the decisions have been posted? I believe so, in the case of the protest/appeal I was involved in. due to the protest/appeal being against car prep this would help other prep their car by showing how a rule should be nterpreted (regardless of what an individual might creatively come up with) of course the rule has been clarified for this year, so I think the protest/appeal documents are no longer needed. Also the documents in the case I was involved in, if they were still posted tarnish the reputation of a respectable member of the community, there is no need for the protest/appeal to be still up there held over his head, it shouldn't be online any longer. It was online long enough for those concerned with the implications of the ruling to get a look at it. Now with a new rule book on the way and those decisions written into the rule book (in the form of rule clarifications) there is no need for it to be online.

In the end CASC decided to pull the documents. In the protest/appeal I was involved in I think it was the right decision and doing it after the season ended was a good move. The posting of a Protest/appeal is not an open invitation to debate them in a public forum, it's not going to change them no matter how loud the debate is. The posting of a protest/appeal is a notification that result has been reached, read it come to your own opinion of it. but please there is no need to debate it. it's not going to changed based on popular opinion in this forum.

[tanney]

(I have not heard of the other party involved in the protest/appeal I was involved in complaining about it)

Maybe he didn't want to publically drag the sport through the mud.

I truly respect this person for accepting the decision of the appeal board and getting on with things. Regardless if he liked the appeal ruling or not, he accepted it and has not continued with wanting further explainations.

[finboy]

Maybe he didn't want to publically drag the sport through the mud.

I truly respect this person for accepting the decision of the appeal board and getting on with things. Regardless if he liked the appeal ruling or not, he accepted it and has not continued with wanting further explainations.

from what i know.. one of the individuals involved was fine with posting the results, and all the details.. just wanted his FULL NAME removed

from the guys i spoke to.. none are shying away from the protests or any details involved.

i'm sure now that the 2005 season is over, the players involved might chime in and share their experiences

whatever the case.... its over..

[gatherer]

his Full name was removed... the request was a reasonable one and if I remember correctly the site was updated within a day of the request being received.

[Pete@Marcor]

http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/06-4-fastrack.pdf (Page 14, half way down)

Protest filed on Feb 19th at the event, and ruled on the same day
Appeal filed on (?)
Appeal hearing held March 6th
Results published on March 20th

stir, stir, stir......

Why are we trying to stir things up?

If you have a specific question about the protest that you can legitimately say you don't know, email the Solo Director, the head of the Appeal board or the Stewards. They will forward the info that you need, so that you do not run afoul of the rules in the same way that the persons involved in this conflict did. Keep it off of the public forums, as it has been flogged to death on here.

The new rulebook has been clarified so that the rule in question is more explicilty defined. This way, it will be more obvious to someone preparing a car what the rule is.

Or, if you are asking why the SCCA upheld the appeal, read the Fast Track notes. It is all there. Or, as the SCCA for clarification. We are not the SCCA. We are CASC-OR. If you prefer the way SCCA does it, go compete there.

[SE-R Racer]

Its also funny...

...how everyone is quick to jump on the "w-word" bandwagon. Read the posts more carefully and let me know who's actually doing the whining....

...how I don't see your name here. (http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=7948)

...how money seems to be an issue in a volunteer based sport

A) I wasn't refering to anyone on this thread, but there are those with a history of complaining but never offering any assistance and were stangely silent when Wes announced his intention NOT to run again this year.

B) How astute of you, however I support those that are running the series not trying to belittle them on the forums, also I keep busy helping getting our club started in AutoX and Solo I, which it has never been, gridding at regional races, The Toronto Grand Prix, and always lend a hand when asked at any event.

C) Money is an issue when you have to pay for venues, food, washroom facilities (which many seem to forget) and other incidental costs of putting on an event.

[SE-R Racer]

Why are we trying to stir things up?

If you have a specific question about the protest that you can legitimately say you don't know, email the Solo Director, the head of the Appeal board or the Stewards. They will forward the info that you need, so that you do not run afoul of the rules in the same way that the persons involved in this conflict did. Keep it off of the public forums, as it has been flogged to death on here.

The new rulebook has been clarified so that the rule in question is more explicilty defined. This way, it will be more obvious to someone preparing a car what the rule is.

Or, if you are asking why the SCCA upheld the appeal, read the Fast Track notes. It is all there. Or, as the SCCA for clarification. We are not the SCCA. We are CASC-OR. If you prefer the way SCCA does it, go compete there.


Well said!

[J.C.]

great. now wheres my trophy? :D

I am sure you will get it in the mail shortly. Though I am wondering if your going to have to pay shipping :rolleyes:

[13inches]

We are not the SCCA. We are CASC-OR. If you prefer the way SCCA does it, go compete there. Then why are sections of our rulebook direct copies of the SCCA's? Our vechicle classifications are based off of theirs. Our comeptitors want "SCCA-style" courses, on "SCCA-sized" lots. Notice a trend here?

-IF- the SCCA ideal is what we're striving for, perhaps we can learn a few things from how they handled this incident. And wasn't that the intent of the original post?