View Full Version : 2003 season summed up in 4 words "CSP will own you"
thats right..after a very high level meeting of the CSP car owners it has been decided that the next targets for 2003 are to be all of the V8 powered cars......
so with that in mind..i want to set the stage for the next batch of smack talk that will continue thru the winter....
with a allbeit slight feel of 20psi boost levels in my car..and feeling the tires break loose in 4th gear at 150kph....it has been decided to go for broke next season....
1=full race suspension
2=huge 72lb injectors and fuel system added
3=run high octane race fuel
CSP has figured that if we can come within several seconds in the current cars state of tune....ie low powered hondas and nissans..that it should be somewhat easy to develop the cars for next year and shave off a few seconds here and there....to beat the V8's at thier own game..
SO..... CSP has its guns aimed squarely at the big V8 dogs....
:)
so no takers on this one yet eh....
not even a nibble...a little bite...
shaman where are you ...dave?
Shaman
08-28-2002, 03:14 PM
I'm busy thinking of ways to make my car faster without having to resort to racing fuel. :)
i have 1 idea.....
how bout actually getting it running and come out to a few solo 1 events :)
that would make it quicker :)
Shaman
08-28-2002, 03:22 PM
It runs now. It'll just run reliably next year.
turboawd
08-28-2002, 04:50 PM
Is race fuel legal in SP or any class?
Adam, how do you expect to run full season next year after your bottem end explodes?
haha, sorry Adam I've been busy pulling my engine apart. Here's some pics for your viewing pleasure :)
http://www.hadamotorsport.com/images/sparkplug.jpg
http://www.hadamotorsport.com/images/exhaustports.jpg
http://www.hadamotorsport.com/images/headerspew.jpg
I think I will run race gas next year, along with a stock ITR bottom end for reliability. Screw this grenade show I've been putting on for you all :p
here's a few more pics showing the extent of the damage. Looks like I'll be needing a new cylinder head casting as well as a shortblock. Ugh. Ironically, I just sold my spare head and shortblock, so I now have to go out and buy replacements again.
Yes I am a rocket scientist...
http://www.hadamotorsport.com/images/blockoverhead.JPG
http://www.hadamotorsport.com/images/cylinder4.JPG
http://www.hadamotorsport.com/images/cylinder4wall.jpg
http://www.hadamotorsport.com/images/cylinderhead.JPG
http://www.hadamotorsport.com/images/combustion4.jpg
holy crap thats bad.......
was it detonation......?
i am pretty sure we can run any fuel we want in solo 1 .....no?
i plan on running VP motorsports 103..unleaded race fuel.....or maybe 1/2 sunoco 94 with 1/2 leaded 116..that would work nice as well
what are those "balls" of metal?
Shaman
08-29-2002, 09:49 AM
That is detonation, IMHO but it also looks like it dropped a valve as a result. I can see the other head chambers are pitted, or maybe it's just the picture... which indicates predetonation.
Looks like a broken valve stem sticking out there...
That's as ugly an engine grenade as I've ever seen. Looks worse than my KX500 when the wrist pin clip came off and the pin walked out to catch a boost port. Much worse. That's an impressive amount of destruction. :)
I'm not sure it was detonation. The a/f ratio was right around 13:1, which is a good mixture for Honda engines and the spark plugs weren't showing any signs of detonation. The pitting you think you're seeing on the other cylinder bowls and pistons are actually just little metal bits and pieces from the meltdown on #4. The pistons on #'s 1-3 are all in good shape, actually.
I think the more likely culprit is a stretched or failed rod, which allowed the piston to fly up into the combustion chamber, pancaking the spark plug and ripping out a couple valves in the process. I may have had some clearance issues so all it would have taken is a bit of stretching of the rod and it would be game over. The Civic Type R pistons I was running have a very aggressive compression hump and my big Toda cams have a lot of lift and duration. This combo is know to cut it close on the clearance side of things. I thought I had enough clearance based on how little the head was milled, but I may have been wrong.
Next time around I'm going to run less compression for sure, which will result in more clearance and less likelihood of detonation.
And yes Adam, those balls of metal in cylinder 4 are the remains of he pistons. Attractive, eh? :p
Cheers,
Dave
Moose
08-29-2002, 01:41 PM
Hey Dave,
Based upon the amount of Smack talk from Adam ... I think it is time to post the scan I sent you last week.
Moose
hey moose,
how much for a set of brembo rotors( plain ones not x-drilled or slotted)....
need the 30mm 300zx twin turbo rotors
fronts...
please advise price and delivery
thanks
adam
Moose
08-29-2002, 01:57 PM
Ahhhh Never mind ...... just found the pesky picture ....I had this commisioned just for you Adam ...
Adam ... email me at moosilla(remove first)@sympatico.ca ... I will check on availabilty for your rotors
Cheers
Moose
thats exactly what i was talking about...but it needs some blood dripping...and larger claws..
who took the time to draw that ??
Moose
08-29-2002, 02:21 PM
Adam,
I commisioned a guy at work, who is a cartoonist, to draw up a Weasel (with a Honda Tattoo) crushing Madza and Nissan cars (notice the emblems on the cars).
I asked for the fangs with dripping blood, but it got lost in the translation .... but i is still pretty good overall ...
:)
Cheers
Moose
ctenche
08-29-2002, 02:25 PM
That's pretty funny Moose!!!
I think we should include a decal with that picture on it as part of every HADA membership package and it must be a requirement for members to run it at all Solo 1 or Solo 2 events.
Or, yeah, we can make it part of our flag!
Did we just come across the HADA mascot?
hey...what about my royalties
you guys are gonna have to pay big :)
Bad Karma
08-29-2002, 03:16 PM
Neat pictures....but I'd have to agree that it looks more like a failed con-rod, rather than detonation.
A little pre-detonation *may* have contributed to the issue, seeing as just one cylinder / piston sustained the damage, it looks more like a hard failure.
Lucky you didn't end up with a rod out the side of your block, given the way the damage looks. However, your block looks shot anyway, so I guess hole in the side or not, it's little difference.
Those littles *balls of metal* is about all that is left of the piston... I'll have to dig up some shots from a couple of mis-shifted motors I've seen, and the nice, big, fist sized hole in the side of the block, along with 24 bent or broken valves, and a couple of large chunks of former pistons...
Seeing a blown motor gives a guy new respect for exactly what stresses are being put on those things...particularly in our hobby.
Pat
Shaman
08-29-2002, 11:50 PM
Hrm. I dunno. See, if one cylinder at the end of the intake tract is getting too much air or not enough, it can cause some predet. If you have a bearing going bad and not a lot of clearance, the equation gets tight.
But it might not be, it's just that this sort of catastrophe doesn't often happen without a catalyst. Rod stretching? Maybe at the engine speed you run them at... you should be using the best rods you can find in that car for sure.
Bad Karma
08-30-2002, 05:20 AM
Well, leaned out can cause some pre-detonation, but too much fuel shouldn't. Too much should cause a mis-fire, but if anything, a mis-fire shouldn't cause a rod to fail.
I'm not saying that pre-detonation wasn't the catalyst that started this all...perhaps a partially clogged injector leaned out that cylinder, and the con-rod failed due to the simultaneous pushing / pulling going on in that cylinder....
It *looks* like the con-rod failed on the way up, releasing the piston to meet the valves and sparkplug, judging by the pictures.
I don't think leaning out the cylinder itself would cause that much damage....though we can't take a look at the piston to see if it's been burned or not.
Pat
i pulled my spark plug on cyl 4 last night...and its black with smell of fuel and oil on it...so thats about right with a blown gasket since the oil and fuel would be just coating the plug..checked the other 3 plugs and they are fine...running very rich....
so the gasket may have blown due to the fire? or perhaps just the increased boost pressure of 27psi+
but since the plug is 100% fine..i don't think detonation was the cause...
head being pulled next wed...
i bloody well hope its not the rings that blew as well...ahhh
Bad Karma
08-31-2002, 11:51 PM
I'd suggest it was the 27psi of boost that blew your head gasket...the fire isn't a likely culprit in the head gasket failure.
I'm assuming the compuer is the only thing controlling boost on your car? No PSV of any sort to blow off at a pre-set pressure?
It might be an important safety measure, since your computer read zero boost, and automatically fed maximum boost to your car....a PSV or blow-off valve could save you a significant engine repair in the future.
You're lucky you didn't get a detonation problem; I'm not sure your fuel system is up to 27 psi of boost....
Pat
yep..just the computer controlling the boost :)
those damn computers :)
if i had some sort of preset blow off valve ..it would have to be very large..i think HKS makes one? hmmm might be a good idea
Originally posted by Bad Karma
I'd suggest it was the 27psi of boost that blew your head gasket...the fire isn't a likely culprit in the head gasket failure.
I'm assuming the compuer is the only thing controlling boost on your car? No PSV of any sort to blow off at a pre-set pressure?
It might be an important safety measure, since your computer read zero boost, and automatically fed maximum boost to your car....a PSV or blow-off valve could save you a significant engine repair in the future.
You're lucky you didn't get a detonation problem; I'm not sure your fuel system is up to 27 psi of boost....
Pat
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