Hey Adam , no weasels at Mosport !

[Dave Barker]

Was at the lapping day this past Fri at the real track at Mosport ( not that Honda track) put on by the BMW club. I was one of only 5 American Iron cars but there was only 1 , yes 1 Honda weasel in a prelude . Otherwise the field was full of BMWs or Porsches of various speeds and the only other front wheel drive car was none other than St Nicholas of the Action Front , and at least he has a Nissan. Actually there were at least 6 Solo 1 drivers there and I think we all did ok despite the fear we may be too reckless. Although the passing needs to be indicated , at least there is passing .

Had an entertaining drive with Chris Sorensen where he showed me just how well he can drive ; which is very well, and even though I didn't match him in any catagory other than top speed up the back straight it sure is a hoot to run that track , especially with out a chance of a Honda nipping at your heels. For once I got to use the power for a reasonable amount of time and now that Mosport is so relatively smooth , the live axle doesn't get too upset.

Elsewhere on the board is a reference to Dexter days . Been there, done that twice and likely won't again . Dexter days are quite undisciplined with various levels of skill all mixed together. Lots of guys show up with big $ cars that need to spend more money on driving instruction . They also need to learn how to look in a rear view mirror.

[ADAM]

sounds like alot of fun....

how do you hear about these lapping days? i would love to go out to one at the big track.

[DECH_92]

Hi Dave, did any of the solo BMW guys do the club racing on Sunday?
I was there saturday but not driving
Was invited by Derek and Peter Hanson to meet a few of the BMW Dech instructors and to check out his last made adjustable wing he made, and to get some tire advice on camber and toe.

I was lapping at the big track a month ago ,a life long dream and I was not disapointed. Did pretty good.

[Bad Karma]

Dave,

When I saw the name on the student / instructor list, I figured that was you. I'm guessing you weren't there on Saturday or Sunday, as I didn't see the Camaro there for either of those.

All in all though, the car looked good on the *big track*. You'll have to make sure you attend some of our events next year.

As to Dexter Days, they have improved a LOT in the past couple of years. Generally, there is still a major OFF in the morning session(s), but it's a LOT better than it was a few years ago, when it was essentially a race, without anybody knowing it was.


Adam,

The BMW Club of Canada doesn't actually run *open-lapping* days, but rather Advanced Driving schools several times per year. Most of these schools are at Mosport, but we also run events out at Mt. Tremblant in Quebec as well.

Each event at Mosport is a weekend event, broken down into Saturday / Sunday schedules, with LOTS of track time per day, along with exercises, classroom instruction and in-car instruction.

The Friday that Dave attended is an *by-invitation* event only, for instructors and our advanced 'A' level students. Cauis attended our June school, and seemed to have a pretty good time overall.


Pat

[ADAM]

who would i contact at the bmw club, and is there a list of upcoming days?

[Bad Karma]

Adam,

You can start at www.bmwclub.ca, which is the *general* website for all the various Chapters of the BMW Club of Canada.

The chapter you'd be signing up for is Trillium, and the registrar is Rolf Lange. Owning a BMW is not a membership requirement.

No more events for 2002, so you'd have to wait until April of 2003 before we run anymore events at Mosport.

Howard Dexter runs some days at Mosport which are purely open lapping days. He has one scheduled for Sept 20th, and Saturday, Oct 19th.

Otherwise, I'm not sure who else is running any schools / lapping days on the big track.


Pat

[Shaman]

Ah yes, big tracks where horsepower becomes intoxicating... if there wasn't so much danger involved, Solo-1 would be incredible on the big track @ Mosport.

[ADAM]

i just want to go out and see what the track is like, and toodle loo around a bit...i am a bit afraid of wracking it up in a tree

[Dave Barker]

Pat , you are right , I could only make Friday but that seems to be the day you get the most track time . BTW which car was yours ( although if you tell me it is a grey E 30 M 3 I will have difficulty knowing which one)

Adam , it took a lot to wrangle an " invitation" to this event and certainly for the lapping days the BMW club only wants experienced drivers and generally those who have gone through their schools. OTOH they would be happy for you to join one of their wkend schools but they fill up early .

Steve , I agree that Solo 1 would be a thrill at Mosport but certainly other than Chris Sorensen , I didn't notice anyone driving as hard as a lot of us do in Solo 1 , I know I wasn't . Approaching Turn 8 at I guess about 200 kph or Turn 4 at who knows what is about as fast as I want to go without a cage and in your car ....? I think that the potential for bodily damage is much higher and I don't think even Adam would wish that on those Hada weasels.

Greg , I seem to remember you went to the day run by the SVT club. It seems there were very few instructors and you could have used more. Dave Stokes of OMSC has suggested that possibly a joint day with the SVT club and the Toronto F body club might be a success as a Camaro/Mustang challenge as long as we could get them away from deciding which car polish is best. I don't know , maybe we could include the Hada members as long as they watched their mirrors !! ( Something they are not used to having to do)

[Bad Karma]

Actually, several of us as BMW Club instructors volunteered to instruct for the GTAMC event at Mosport. We were told that we couldn't instruct for them, unless we actually drove Ford product (which I do, as my tow vehicle....they didn't bite).

Unfortunately, several marquee's have the attitude that in order to instruct someone in how to drive their car on a racetrack, you must drive the same car. While similar cars IS a benefit, the basics of driving on a racetrack, particularly one as intimidating and infamous as Mosport can be had from any car.

BMW Club instructors regularly instruct at Ferrari schools (Canada AND the U.S.), BMW schools across the border, and at independent schools generally run by one member or another of our group.

My car is a white E36 (1994) BMW 325is, completely stripped and race prepped. Looks an awful lot like Christian's, except sitting somewhat lower, and obviously not as red....

Pictures of my car can be seen at www.ravenperformance.com

I saw your car on the track just once in all the sessions we ran on the Friday. You were obviously running some pretty solid times, as I generally *encounter* most cars in a run group during any particular session. You'll have to come out for some more events we have there, and really learn to scare yourself going around turn 4 flat out..... (Just kidding....though I get a little nervous myself when everybody is telling me at breakfast on Sunday morning about how they saw my left front wheel off the ground going down the hill on turn 4!).

Still, it's my favorite track around here. Nothing like a blind elevation change corner or two to really get the heart pumping.... Good thing I was taking the paramedics out for a ride....


Pat

[Shaman]

What I appreciate most about that track is finally being able to feel what full acceleration in 4th and 5th feels like. On the smaller tracks, I can never wind my car out for more than a few seconds and I never get the feeling of anything except "banzai". Banzai is good enough, though...

I wasn't thinking so much about the issue of sheetmetal damage actually, Dave. I was thinking more about bodily damage. Driving the big tracks in the states and at Mosport are why I put a cage in my car. I have no idea what my car does on the back stretch at Mosport but I saw 260km/h and coasted into the braking zone each time at that speed so as not to be hard on the components.

[ctenche]

Good Lord Shaman! 260 km/h?!?!!!!

That's a lot of engine. Me want.

[Shaman]

I don't know what top end is. I'm guess 275km/h but I'm not in a hurry to find out... it was interesting going around the right hand bend at partial throttle in fifth and having my instructor suddenly freak out on me to slow down on my first lap. Guess he finally registered the velocity. :) At tracks like Shannonville, there's just not TIME to get serious velocity.

It is a very strange feeling watching 250km/h appear on the speedometer and the car is still accelerating hard. Only on a big track can you get the impression. :(

[RedRabbit Racer]

I think there is an alternate solution to lapping days which should be considered. If you love the big track, try REGIONAL ROAD RACING!

Wailing around the big track when lapping is one thing, but adding the other elements of encountering faster and slower cars, the necessity of chosing different lines and the thrill of close racing where the difference in speed is measured in inches over a lap makes for an addictive thrill.

I think the risk is inversely proportional to experience. With enough practice, you can make it around the track safely. There is the chance of property damage but bodily injury is very rare. I don't recommend 260kph into turn 8 on the first lap, but in the late 80's the imsa audis were approaching at 320 kph so chances are no matter how fast you think you are going, someone else has gone a lot faster.

the cost of the necessary safety equipment appears small relative to the cost of wheels/tires/brakes/suspension/turbos etc tossed around this board. Take the plunge and enjoy!

[Dave Barker]

Pat , I don't have the tires ( or the guts ) to do turn 4 flat out and I was chicken braking for 8 but I did seem to make a lot of time on people in turns 10 , 1 and 2 especiallly now that turn 2 isn't quite as intimidating as in the past.

Steve , I did mean bodily damage in 2 ways

Red rabbit , if you knew how low my budget was then you would know that even el cheapo regional racing would be a minimum of 5 times my Solo 1 and lapping budget and as much as I would love to , it is not in the cards for another few years.

[Nabs]

WOW! 320 kph on the back straight! All i could muster was 205 with my puny 1.8 I-4.:)


I agree with Red rabbit racer, i don't think regional racing is as expensive as most people say. You can campaign a low hp car with basic bolt-ons and toyo Ra1 tires and be set. I ran an integra with a very low budget and only changed the oil once, one set of tires and one set of hawk brakes. It all depends on what you're driving and how fast you want to go.

[Jay]

Hey Nabs and Red Rabbitt..

Just wondering if you could provide a quick breakdown of approx. costs to campaign a car in Regional Races?

Entry fees, car expenses, safety gear etc.

Thanks

Jay

[John Hannaford]

If anyone wants a Solo 1 experience on Mosport big, try the COMSC Club out of New England. They run Solo 1 style events at many of the big north-eastern tracks - Lime Rock, Loudon, Mt. Tremblant, Pocono, Watkins Glen, Mosport, etc.. A lot of their events are hard to get into, but Mosport seems less heavily subscribed than some of the others because of the travel distance involved for most of the competitors.

http://users.rcn.com/comscc/

[Dave]

John, thanks for the link. COMSSC looks like a really interesting organization. I think I may have to join and run with them at Mosport and Mt. Tremblant at the very least. Looks like my car (assuming it is in one piece) would be quite competitive in SPC class. Cool stuff!

But my main priority for next year is getting the car and driver ready for regional racing. Gotta finish off the front half of the rollcage, get a proper fire supression system, and buy all the nomex gear including a spiffy driver's suit :cool: Hey, if I'm not going fast I'd better look fast!

Nabs and Graham, I too would like to see a breakdown of regional racing costs based on your experiences. Would be very helpful for my own budgeting efforts.

[John Hannaford]

Dave, what do you think your changes to pass tech will cost? I'm trying to get the cost of regional racing figured out too.

[Dave]

well, finishing off the rollcage will cost about $1k, buying all the nomex gear will cost that much again, and of course I'll need to take the Horizon school which costs about $900. So I'm looking at about $3k to get going. And of course I'd like to buy a tow vehicle and trailer this winter if possible, but we'll see. I'll drive the car to the track if I have to!

Rebuilding my engine (again) will cost me at least $1k, depending on how OEM I keep things. Eventually I'd like to replace some body panels with fiberglass and the window with lexan, but these things can wait until the financial impact of the start-up costs have been dealt with.

And Debb wants a bigger house :rolleyes:

[Nabs]

Humm, well, it all depends on the car you choose. It would cost much more to compaign a civic like Daves.

For my old Integra, here is what it costed me off the top of my head:

$5,000 = car, 92 integra, race ready with suspension but a stock motor, so it was not highly mod'd which usually means more reliability.

$1000 = race suit
$300 = shoes, socks, baclava, etc
$1600 = 2 sets of toyo ra1s
$1200 = 2 sets of used wheels
$280/wknd = sprints entrance fee
$50/wknd = gas
$60/wknd = food
$100/wknd = misc extra parts

i had full reliability so i really did'nt need extra parts. I guess i was lucky.


I'm sure theres something im missing here...

Given solo-1 is now $130 per event, the $280 is not a bad deal and you get much more track time not to mention some good racing.

[Dave]

Thanks for the cost breakdown, Nabs. Solo 1 is actually $110/event if you pre-register (more than 10 days in advance of the event date), but regional racing is still an EXCELLENT value by the sounds of it.

How much track time do you get for that $285/wkd? At a Solo 1 event, as you well know, we get about 20 minutes of timed track time and say another 20 minutes of practice before/after the event. So maybe 40 minutes total. Of course Solo 1 really isn't about sheer track time (can't beat a lapping day for this), it's more about being in a competition environment without the danger or start-up safety equipment costs associated with bumper-to-bumper road racing.

[Dave Barker]

Dave , the start up costs are what bother me the most , i.e. tow vehicle , trailer and storage of which I have none . If I could safely cage a street driven car the costs would plummet to the point of being much more affordable but unfortunately that won't work on my Camaro as the roofline is too low to use with a 3 point belt on the street. I know there are some here who would stoop to the level of front wheel drive cars but my street car with the right tires can already run slow GTB speeds ( if I remember the break out points correctly ) so driving a race GTD car doesn't seem as thrilling although I am sure the wheel to wheel side of the equation is still great , after all think of how much fun go karts can be .
I do know that a type R would probably be a great compromise but they are pricey used and my other more obvious choice would be a 3 rd gen Mustang which can be caged and in streetable trim should run GTC easily but even they are remarkably high priced for one in good condition . Next year I have 2 kids in University and another 2 years later so the budget is pretty tight.

[Dave]

Dave Barker in a Type R? *GASP* The horror....the horror... :p

Thankfully my Civic isn't a daily driver, so from that standpoint I guess I'm luckier than you. And putting 4 kids through university is definitely a pretty good excuse not to break the bank on road racing. Just make sure you don't let them take Anthropology at McMaster or they may end up with me as their Prof :D