Lapping at TMP on July 28'06 1pm - 8pm

[John P]

'Take It Off The Streets’ HADA Organized SoloSprint Lapping and Instruction

Time to learn this tricky 3km road course prior to the SoloSprint Events on July 29, 30'06. Practice that perfect line.

With 7 hours of track time and limited entry, you should have plenty of track time without catching other lappers.

- Friday, July 28’06, 1:00pm to 8:30pm, Toronto Motorsport Park, Cayuga, ON
o Entry; $150, HADA members; $115.
o Entry prior to July 14’06; $125, HADA members; $100.
o After 5:30pm; $75, HADA members; $60.

- More info; John Paczynski (905) 846 3925 or johnpacz@hotmail.com or make out a cheque to HADA Motorsports and send it to John Paczynski, 14 Fernbrook Crescent, Brampton, ON L6Z 3N8

[Andoru]

I ran an event there on the weekend. The track is really nice.

However they do noise test on all cars. Cars must not go over 103db's from rear or side when reving to within 1000 rpm of redline.

Was really surprised since I've never seen this actually done.

Andrew.

[dubya_rx]

Hmmm... I was there this summer and they didn't noise test me. Wonder if it was because I was late and they didn't test the late comers? I wonder if showing up late is the work-around? :D I am no where neat the limit BTW.

[John P]

TMP indicated their limit is 102 db, although our SoloSprint rules allow a maximum of 95db for non modified cars and 98db for Modified cars at SMP and 92 at Mosport DDT for all cars.

The TMP noise levels may be stricter because they test at 5 meters from all sides of a car.

TMP will be testing all cars before you can get on the track on each of the three days (Lapping, SoloSprint), so please allow extra time for the tests.

Regards,

JohnP

[thekid]

Anyone have the equipment to test this ahead of time? For those that have heard my SoloSprint car will it be an issue?

Last thing I want to do is drive out there to find out I can't compete.

[John P]

I don't know of anyone in GTA.

Maybe it is better to be safe than sorry. Put a good muffler and maybe a resonantor on it and you should be OK.

[thekid]

I don't know of anyone in GTA.

Maybe it is better to be safe than sorry. Put a good muffler and maybe a resonantor on it and you should be OK.

I'm not going to spend money to modify my car for one event in the year.

If I can't be sure I'm going to withdraw my entry from the event all together. I can't afford to spend the money on gas for towing or the entry fees only to not be able to compete.

[John P]

Sorry Brain, that you are considering to miss two out of nine events, but we don't have any leeway on this issue.

TMP can't afford to lose there Road Course license so they are testing all cars at the track every day. They will also be watching for loud cars during the day in case somebody decides to disconnect their exhaust after being tested. TMP probably couldn't obtain a license renewal for a number of years if they abuse their privileges. They are taking this very seriously so we have to also.

JohnP

[soloZ]

When I was there last month there was a couple cars that were pretty loud and still running on the track. Infact Judd wasn't aloud to run his Pntiac Accadain(chevy II) there was a modified Porsche 996 I think that was pretty loud still running so I am hopefully there wont be any troubles. I don't really think anyone here should have any trouble. Also I could hear cars on the road leading to the drag strip that all of the houses are on.

[ScotcH]

You can buy the testers at Radio Shack (the source now, I guess). Just buy it, test your car, and return it.

Or maybe CASC could invest in one? :)

[thekid]

You can buy the testers at Radio Shack (the source now, I guess). Just buy it, test your car, and return it.

Or maybe CASC could invest in one? :)
That's all I need to know! Thanks Arek! :)

[Chris91GT]

For reference, the 91 with open exhaust was 110dB from ~5m. That was pretty loud.

FYI, if your car "cackles" when you lift you may be in trouble. It's not just sustained dB.

[Gerry]

Some time ago, when we last ran at TMP (we old-timers remember this stuff) Kenny Lau was banned from the event due to noise. Now he was running a full race engine in a highly modified Acura, and it was seriously loud. The engine subsequently grenaded, I think at the last event.
Anyhow, there is a precedent for refusing to allow competitors on the track. My impression was that the measurement process was somewhat less than scientific :rolleyes:
Cheers, Gerry

[Jasonoff]

What's your rules on convertables?

Are you allowing S2000's to run?

[ScotcH]

What's your rules on convertables?

Are you allowing S2000's to run?


Sure, with proper roll over protection (specified in the SoloSprint rule book).

[Andoru]

They arn't being completely anal about it. My car pulled 103db's with my open exhaust and they still let me on pending it wasn't super loud from a distance when I was on the track. And yes, my mistake, 102db's is the limit.

That said, TMP is going to have issues. Most race machines are running open exhausts and are pee loud in the high rpm's.

Andrew.

[Jasonoff]

Sure, with proper roll over protection (specified in the SoloSprint rule book).So solo1 rules even for the lapping.

Bummer...

[ScotcH]

So solo1 rules even for the lapping.

Bummer...

Well, if you think it's a bummer to increase your chance of survival in a roll-over .... :rolleyes:

[John P]

Jasonoff

The CASC safety rules are focussed on competitor safety. The CASC affiliated clubs use the same liability insurance company that has accepted the SoloSprint safety rules. If we don't abide by our own rules then we don't have any insurance.

From a personal view I would not be involved in this sport I there was a chance that somebody was hurt. I am not going to stand on a corner downtown asking for change for my next meal because your car didn't meet the rules. That would be a real bummer.

JohnP

[slai]

There was an S2k with stock rollover protection at the Solosprint school though.

[John P]

Yes there was, but at the first SoloSprint event the Stewards decided he didn't meet the rules for rollover protection. He didn't run.

[JGraves]

I don't want to hijack the thread but I know there is interest in S2000 roll bars for Solo 1. Please PM me or start a new thread to discuss. It's within 1/2" of the soft top and further forward than the stock hoops without affecting seat travel.

[Jasonoff]

Well, if you think it's a bummer to increase your chance of survival in a roll-over .... :rolleyes:No need to get snotty.

[soloZ]

Would one of those fancy Mugen hard tops make the S2000 legal for solosprints or would it still need a roll bar?

[JGraves]

No need to get snotty.

He's been shiny side down. He's allowed to be snotty on this issue.

[JGraves]

Would one of those fancy Mugen hard tops make the S2000 legal for solosprints or would it still need a roll bar?

I don't see where a Mugen hard top on an S2000 is any different than a Mazda factory top on a Miata but I don't know anything about the Mugen piece.

The S2000 roll hoops are not roll over protection in anywhere near the same way as a Solo 1 spec bar is. FWIW the S2000 hoops are 1.5" dia x 0.080" wall with no fore/aft bracing.

[CobraStang]

No doubt the S2000 stock hoops are not equivalent to the SoloSprint roll bar.

However, how do the stock hoops compare to the roof of your average production vehicle, like, say, for example, a BMW 325?

[Jasonoff]

Safety starts with the driver. I don't push it at lapping days as I'm just there to have fun and hopefully improve my skills. I agree anything can happen at speed but the same can be said off the track. Does this mean I should have installed a solo 1 regulation roll bar in my car to increase my chances of survival in a rollover on the highway? Or better yet maybe I should be wearing a helmet at all times.

The s2000 believe it or not has excellent rollover production in stock form. Just as good if not better than any hard top vehicle out there. I agree if I was strapped in a racing seat with a 4-5 pt harness and pushing my car at or just beyond my limits that's a different story.

It's unfortunate ScotcH has rolled his car before. But I'd like to ask how and what was he doing to do so?

However if harping on me because I'm bummed out I can't take my production (According to Honda engineers) rollover safe vehicle to a lapping day because they have to stick to solo1 rules due to insurance reasons makes you feel better then be my guest.

[Chris91GT]

Safety starts with the driver. I don't push it at lapping days as I'm just there to have fun and hopefully improve my skills. I agree anything can happen at speed but the same can be said off the track. Does this mean I should have installed a solo 1 regulation roll bar in my car to increase my chances of survival in a rollover on the highway? Or better yet maybe I should be wearing a helmet at all times.

The s2000 believe it or not has excellent rollover production in stock form. Just as good if not better than any hard top vehicle out there. I agree if I was strapped in a racing seat with a 4-5 pt harness and pushing my car at or just beyond my limits that's a different story.

It's unfortunate ScotcH has rolled his car before. But I'd like to ask how and what was he doing to do so?

However if harping on me because I'm bummed out I can't take my production (According to Honda engineers) rollover safe vehicle to a lapping day because they have to stick to solo1 rules due to insurance reasons makes you feel better then be my guest.

Honda engineers will not certify that you will have any form of protection if you roll your car at 160+kph (200+kph on the big track at Mosport). This is competition, not street driving, and thus we have stiffer safety rules for rollovers.

The full-width SoloSprint roll hoop provides not only a stiffer structure, but also a larger contact patch. In the event that you were to roll in the grass (most likely scenario) your stock roll hoops may well simply dig into the grass, thereby substituting you head and neck for the factory rollover protection. There was an open wheel fatality a few years back from this exact scenario.

The reality is that the unexpected can happen at any time. You don't plan for the suspension failure entering turn 1 at 160kph while "only" driving at 7/10ths, but it happens. What happens after that is totally out of your/our hands. You're on your own on the street, but out here, it's SoloSprint and the organizers who are on the line and due diligence requires that we take all reasonable precautions to ensure our competitors' safety... and avoid decade-long lawsuits.

[Jasonoff]

This is competition, not street driving, and thus we have stiffer safety rules for rollovers.This is a lapping day not a competition. I fully agree with the strict rollover protection rules for competition. If I start competing with this car a bar WILL be installed.

However, I don't compete when I'm at a lapping day. Maybe that's why you do not understand my point.

Anyhow this has been beeten to death. Lets not clutter up this "lapping day" thread any more than it already has.

[ScotcH]

No need to get snotty.
Lol ... your post indicated an indifferrence (or more specifically, a put down) on safety. I simply replied in the same condesending tone.

Does this mean I should have installed a solo 1 regulation roll bar in my car to increase my chances of survival in a rollover on the highway? Or better yet maybe I should be wearing a helmet at all times.

This is a lapping day not a competition. I fully agree with the strict rollover protection rules for competition. If I start competing with this car a bar WILL be installed.

However, I don't compete when I'm at a lapping day. Maybe that's why you do not understand my point.

If you serisouly believe that lapping is closer to street driving than to competition, you really need to give your head a shake.


It's unfortunate ScotcH has rolled his car before. But I'd like to ask how and what was he doing to do so?

However if harping on me because I'm bummed out I can't take my production (According to Honda engineers) rollover safe vehicle to a lapping day because they have to stick to solo1 rules due to insurance reasons makes you feel better then be my guest.
It was turn 1 at Nelson, DURING A LAPPING SESSION. My "harping" has nothing to do with insurance ... I now have a cage in my car, since I didn't like the feeling of the roof on my neck and shoulder, and I'd like to help save others from the same potential danger.


Anyhow this has been beeten to death. Lets not clutter up this "lapping day" thread any more than it already has.
You're right ... you asked about the roll-over protection rules, then when given an answer, you could have accepted it and moved on ... instead you chose to post a comment on the validity of the rule, and our high regard for safety. There is always Battle Endless lapping if you feel that safe already in your car.

[Jasonoff]

you asked about the roll-over protection rulesWrong. I asked if convertables were allowed to lap.then when given an answer, ... you chose to post a comment on the validity of the ruleWrong again! I confirmed your post stating solo1 rules only for lapping and said "bummer". In no way did I make any such comment about disregard for safety. I can't lap and yes that's a bummer. you could have accepted it and moved on I did. Then you felt the need to attack with a un necessary comment If you serisouly believe that lapping is closer to street driving than to competition, you really need to give your head a shake.....if you feel that safe already in your car.Your assumptions made the best of you here. :rolleyes:

[ScotcH]

I'm only going by what you posted. Sorry ... you got me on the technicalities ... I am humbled, and I apologize. Be safe out there, whatever you do. I hope to see you at one of our events, with proper roll over protection in the future.

[Jasonoff]

No worries...

[Slowpoke]

I think that these lapping days allow S2000's without a rollbar:

http://www.toronto-subaru-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91940

http://www.toronto-subaru-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92520

[Jasonoff]

I think that these lapping days allow S2000's without a rollbar:

http://www.toronto-subaru-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91940

http://www.toronto-subaru-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92520
Ya they do. Actually quite a few clubs and schools allow the S2000 without an aftermarket rollbar. It's only the clubs that have insurance for "competition" that don't. No biggie that's why I checked.

[Chuck91GT]

Approximately 6 weeks ago there was a lapping day for the Asian crowd at the big track at Mosport. A brand new Honda S2000 attended that event as well. Half way through turn 1 he panicked, touched the brake, and totally demolished his ride. He didn't roll but if he had he wouldn't be alive to buy another one.

Safety is the issue and even though they are classified as lapping days, comparable cars always seem to challenge each other to the limit.

[John P]

TMP indicated that the Friday Lapping will be extended until 8:30pm.

JohnP

[Anamaria]

TMP indicated that the Friday Lapping will be extended until 8:30pm.

JohnP

I'm planning on doing as much lapping as I can on friday evening, since I haven't been to this track before.

Having said that, registration will be opening after 8:30 (not 8 pm as originally planned)... I hope you guys don't mind ;)

[Rick S]

Never mind.

[nowcritical]

Ya they do. Actually quite a few clubs and schools allow the S2000 without an aftermarket rollbar. It's only the clubs that have insurance for "competition" that don't. No biggie that's why I checked.

I may be stupid but I will not get into a car without all my safety gear, I will not get into a convertible without a roll bar and I will not take my car to the track without some roll over protection. I have seen enough people roll their cars, crash into walls and walk away, they were lucky and if I can do anything to incase my chances I will. I want some issuance.
There is only one question if the worst happens do you want to live? I do !!


I asked a man once on how much I should spend on a helmet.. .He said that if you have a 2$ brain buy a 2$ helmet I quickly opted out of the 2$ helmet.

[Jasonoff]

Not really sure why I read through this thread. I must have been bored but my S2000 (yes I still have it :) ) is equipped with racing seats, 6pt harness and a roll bar now.

http://jasonoff.iroque.com/Sparco_6pt_1.jpg

http://jasonoff.iroque.com/S2000/S2000_Rollbar_ContourGPS.jpgI asked a man once on how much I should spend on a helmet.. .He said that if you have a 2$ brain buy a 2$ helmet I quickly opted out of the 2$ helmet.IIRC I paid about $900 is for my current helmet. BUT...I'd like to think my brain is worth more than that though ;)

[John P]

Nice setup. Maybe you want to come to the Ontario Time Attack event this weekend Aug. 26-28 at Mosport GP Track. You can come one day or all three days. Friday lapping only $215. Full three day weekend $495. Who ever heard of these low prices for Mosport GP.

JohnP
S2000 in GT3