Cheater Tires?

[ice/solo racer]

In a recent post Marsh was explaining the reasoning behind no street tire bonus at the shoot out and hinted at the use of Falken Azenis as a "cheater" tire.

In this months Grassroots they did a big tire test/comparison between street tires and r-compounds. Using the same car and the same course with the same two drivers here are the results:

Best Averaged Time

Falken Azenis 41.55 seconds
ECSTA V700 39.38 seconds
Toyo Proxes 39.96 seconds
Hoosier A3S03 39.17 seconds
Victoracer 39.35 seconds

As you can see the Falken's are over two seconds slower on a 40 second course so our 2% tire bonus is grossly inadequate. In fact, after the bonuses are factored I am still giving up another 3 to 4 % to the "R" compound guys. Definately not a bonus.

Just noting for the record.

[Shaman]

There is definitely no comparison in tire stick, but some people have made more of it than others by familiarity.

Rick Potter, for instance, set FTD a couple years ago at Mountainview on used Pilot Sports.

[ice/solo racer]

I hear what your saying Shaman,as a class winning ice racer and relativly new autoXer with allmost no time on r-compounds(10-12 runs)I'm quite used to sliding around.I think next year will be the year I try this will grip!!You guys (wes/ryan/robb)better be ready now that I know what I gave away it,cause next year will be different!!!

tires with grip,tires with grip I'm gonna get me tires with grip

ha ha

[soloZ]

"tires with grip,tires with grip I'm gonna get me tires with grip"



I don't think they will let you run studded tires.
:p

[Marsh]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer
In a recent post Marsh was explaining the reasoning behind no street tire bonus at the shoot out and hinted at the use of Falken Azenis as a "cheater" tire.

Ok, let me also clarify that I also didn't think that people running Azenas were "cheating". But I'm not a huge fan of the fact that there exists a bonus, which introduces math into the results of even a full class. On the other hand I do think that the bonus is a good thing as it accomplishes what it set out to do, which is to encourage rookies to run the series. But it has become clear that no matter how good the street tire, the R-compound technology has stayed ahead.

[ice/solo racer]

very funny Ryan or is that Ron,I don't think I'd be real popular if I tried my stud tires(cool spark show though!).
I agree with you Marsh that the bonus is a good thing to attract people to this sport of ours,considering no prize money,no event coverage and difficulty in securing sponsership help because of the lack of exposure.
I personally like the option of street versus r-tires,in my case the falkens cost me $400 for the set and after running the season I could still sell them for close to that because they look like new.So for little money I proved to be competitive even though I knew the bonus wasn't enough to make the difference.
I think Robb has his mind made up that the bonus wont be there next year and if thats the case then I suggest starting a street tire class similar to the scca's.
We as a group have to do more to get the street racers into something controlled and give some car control skills to take with'em.The fast and furious set back the public image of us guys trying to actully trying to improve our cars and drive them to their/our limits.
Thats all for now,two of my fingers are real sore

[Nissan Racer]

Originally posted by ice/solo racer


Thats all for now,two of my fingers are real sore

Surfing some 'other' sites today too were you?

[soloZ]

Nissan Racer= KITN :eek:












KITN= Kick in the nuts:D

[AndyC]

Hey Tom --wish GRM had included Yoks 032R's in the test. Our times were often close and the Yoks are not known for their stick-- especially cold. At event #4 when you ran 'cold' was the only time I managed to beat you by any margin. The rest of the time you beat my arse-- Congrats on your class win--good driving!!!
So next year you are going for some 'R' compounds-- Well I'll have to upgrade my rubber also and maybe get a co-driver just to stay close. Looking forward to next year !
P.S. Saw that you are selling #13--any idea what you will be running next season?
AndyC {runner-up in BSS}

[ice/solo racer]

Hi Andy,where'd you go?I never saw you after the double header weekend.I was trying to contact you after that weekend to use you to confirm that the VW that beat us on saturday was really running r-tires not the streets as he was listed.That sunday morning you said that after the bonus I had won the class by about 5/100's however the results when posted showed me with a second place because of the mistake with tires.
That error cost me around 1+ point and because I sucked in Ottawa(tried to sort my car on r-tires with only 3 runs)that saturday was'nt one of my throwaways,and I slipped to 8th overall.
As an interesting comment grassroots noted the falkens offered their best runs when cold,once warmed up they got greasy and grip fell off!.If anyone noticed this summer's temps were a little on the warm side,maybe my wife running first and only half a dozen cars in front wasn't the best of plans?
Since the interest in my corolla seems to have dropped off I'll probably keep it,update the suspension and use those 2 prep points I have left for something super trick!take a run at a class and overall championships(big dreams eh)

[AndyC]

Tom--I work in the film biz and since we work most weekends its tough to get a full season in. As for the VW-- I do not know what tires he was running. If you need to contact me-- 416-266-1780 is my #. I did a few Solo 1's and find it's way more fun but harder on the car. ------So for next year I will probably put a coil over suspension in--to make me more competitive in that series but will bump me up to BSP in Solo 2. Wish the rules in both series were the same !! As for the Falkens the only time I beat you was when Lisa was not there so I assumed that was a factor but there could be other reasons. I hope to take a day off work to be at the Top Gun shoot out. My boss was not too happy when I mentioned it the first time! But I will ask again --- I need a bit of speed to get me through the winter.
AndyC.

[Marsh]

Originally posted by AndyC
Hey Tom --wish GRM had included Yoks 032R's in the test. Our times were often close and the Yoks are not known for their stick-- especially cold. At event #4 when you ran 'cold' was the only time I managed to beat you by any margin...

I'm surprised to hear that. I always thought that the Yokos were really good in the wet and in the cold. A lot of WOSCA guys have them simply for cost reasons, where as I and on other WOSCA member are running the V700. We Kumho guys always do best in the summer heat and get just beeten out in the cold. In the rain it's not even a race. The Yoko guys just walk all over us.

[Taylor]

GRM's test would likely have been on a high 2nd gear to 3rd gear course. Our courses are typically much tigher. With the exception of half of the BAC/Corvette courses and maybe one part of a PITL course, I'm in first gear the whole way through.

I joke about the Azenis as "cheater" tires too. Though I haven't driven on them yet. I think they're a no-brainer for new people to the sport who either don't have the budget or the desire to fork over the big bucks for a set of R's. I'd say it keeps them close.

Of course, who knows what state those tires were at in their life during the test. The Azenis may need some working in. Fact is a number of people buy and run them as a street tire. They must be making a difference for someone.

I would consider them next year for those trips that are a little out of the way for me, though a trailer and hitch could be had for about the cost of those tires.

Personally I'm not sure 2% is enough for streets anyhow, heck the OE tires on the S2000 have a 140 treadwear (but they're delivered with half the tread on them, special version for that car) and that car slides all over the place with those tires on it. But with that said, the only time I went on streets this year in Regionals I came second to Blair. But it wasn't an issue of speed, it was an issue of conage. With the exception of my only clean run, the first run, every other runs raw time was more than enough with the bonus to do it. However that Mosrort course was VERY small and tight which make things difficult for the Z06. So perhaps that's not as fair as say comparing a PITL or tighter C4 course? But in my opinion, the tighter the course, the less the R's heat up and the more important the condition of the R's factor in. Azenis look to be the best street tire you could run for this sport.