Tire brands , revisited

[Dave Barker]

My previous thread re banning Hoosiers has got too long and diversified to be useful so I thought I might add a few points in a new thread. Having finally read the tire test article in GrassRoots Motorsports that is referred to by Dave Pratte in my previous post , it is important to notice that this is for Solo 2 purposes only and the tires were allowed to COOL between 40 second runs , in other words the results may not apply to good and hot race tires in a Solo 1 event. ( One advantage of having a 3500 lb car is that getting heat into the tires is usually quite easy) . Also to be fair the Hoosier tested was an auto x tire and not the road race tire.

OTOH the Hoosier won the test as it did in last years road race tire test. Also on the inside cover of that same issue is an advert from Hoosier claiming to have won more Solo 2 and SCCA club racing national events than " all other tire brands combined" . It could be that most class winners are just lemmings and are following a few who have won with Hoosiers ( pretty fast little critters those lemmings) or more likely Hoosiers really are faster. My point is that Hoosier does not support Solo 1 while Yokohama and Kumho do. I don't like the idea of alienating our sponsers by allowing a faster and much more expensive tire( Hoosier) to win the day for those who have enough money to afford them.


It had been previously suggested that those with deep pockets will just spend the $ on expensive magnesium wheels or remote reservoir shocks but we are not sponsered by Koni , Bilstein , BBS etc so there is no risk of alienating sponsers which there is if we continue to allow Hoosier tires.

[Dave]

all good points, Dr. Dave. I didn't mean to misrepresent the GRM article in any way, but your points of clarification are good ones.

BTW, I love this quote:
pretty fast little critters those lemmings

I'm just imagining a lemming behind the wheel of a Z06 :)

Seriously, you do have a point about not alienating our sponsors, though to my knowledge neither company has asked that we exclusively run their product. It's one thing if Kumho or Yoko actually expressed some displeasure with a few of our competitors not running their tires, but so far I haven't heard of any such complaints.

And if we ban Hoosiers based on this logic doesn't it mean we have to ban Toyos too? I'm not a big fan of that idea! Toyo makes a good durable R-compound that is very cost-effective. I sincerely hope we can get them back as a sponsor, but I'm not going to be too pleased if someone tells me I can't run my Toyos anymore just because they don't sponsor the series.

Another point of consideration: the only candidate for Solo 1 Director at the elections coming up soon competes on Hoosiers. Anyone want to bet on how likely a Hoosier ban is? :)

[Director]

Dave B,
Why do you keep stirring the tire pot. People are going to run what works best for them, lemmings or not. Some drivers swear by Toyo and no Hoosier is going to change their mind. I personnaly like the CTC Pacemark brand myself.

Everyone,
I'd think long and hard before talking about banning a product because their not a sponsor of our series. Talk and rumblings like that out in the public makes it real hard to sell sponsors the Solo I program. After all GM, Ford, Honda, Acura, VW and the likes aren't series sponsors so I guess next year we'll ban cars. Let's not make my job more difficult than it is.
Remember, Solo I is about fun, competition, fun, testing your mettle against the clock, fun, driving your car to the limit, fun, commaraderie amongst competitors and did I mention fun.

Let's stop beating the "equipment used" issue and stick to what we can Police. Rules can govern what points are assessed to mods, lets leave it at that and not what you made the mod with. Next we'll stop allowing helmets because it wasn't bought at CSC Racing. If you don't run Sunoco 94, you'll have to park it. Get my point.

As for the new director candidate, what makes you think any Director would push his influence around.:D

I hope everyone has bought their banquet tickets and I hope to see all those qualified at the Solo I & Solo II Shootout this Staurday.

[ADAM]

if we start with banning cars...lets start with hondas :)

[Moose]

Adam,

I suppose that is the only hope that you will ever have, if they ban Hondas next year


:p




Moose

[Taylor]

I personally am not in favor of banning any particular thing. I also do not, and perhaps may not want to be a part of a spec tire series. I appreciate the openness of Solo 1, and it needs to remain that way to leave the door open for newcomers.

However, I'm not against the idea of incentivizing our competitors to run a sponsor tire. Give them an extra prep point (or -1 points). this way the hoosiers arn't exactly the same benefit they once were as now the guy that was 2 tenths off on his Kumhos and put another point of work into the car and edge Mr. Hoosier out. Of course Mr. Hoosier can move to Kumho's and do the same as well which will turn the benefit in our sponsors hand and effectively reduce the advantage a tire like a Hoosier has over a sponsors tire.

Now the Hoosiers don't look like the fastest tire in Ontario. Ex Hoosier guys are buying sponsor tires to remain competitive.

Something/anything along the lines of incentive to promote the sponsor in a positive namebrand and competitive way should be the ultimate solution. I think a prep point is just enough to do so.

Course if Hoosier was the sponsor.. well I suppose the rule would have to be revisted each year. When Hoosier's the sole sponsor, I guess you don't give any incentive to anyone since Hoosiers are incentive on their own.

[rainman]

There are already incentives in place for sponsor tires everyone. Both Kumho and Yokohama have tire draws for people running their tires. Is that not incentive enough? Forget about prep points especially when you're looking at a difference of a fraction of a second between Kumho and Hoosier.

If you want to assign points to tires, might as well look at assigning points for tires inflated with nitrogen vs. compressed air. Or how about running a newly released tire with a smaller circumference but same width (Ecsta vs. V700?) giving an unfair gearing advantage?

I'll say it again - unless you are running in a spec series where every aspect of a competitor's car is standardized, there will always be varying degrees of inequity. I wish I could afford the time or costs of running in numerous lapping days throughout the season, but reality dictates that 1-2 lapping evenings and one day is about all I can handle. Should I demand that those competitors that attend numerous schools or lapping events between April and November be deducted points because they have an unfair advantage? That would be ludicrous. As with any series, those that have a larger budget will have an advantage over others. Whether that translates into victories is another question.

:confused:

[ADAM]

ha ha ha......





Originally posted by Moose
Adam,

I suppose that is the only hope that you will ever have, if they ban Hondas next year


:p




Moose

[ADAM]

when my 4 horseman of the apolcalypse arrive( tien coilovers)..there will be no where for the hondas to hide...no where to run....i will own them in the corners...and decimate them in the straights :)

thats my 2003 forecast

[ADAM]

i already tried to wound the head honda racer alec with a flame burst last weekend...but i missed him :)

[Moose]

Adam, Adam Adam ..." Sigh"

You poor disallusioned little man ... you get your ass handed to you at the shoot-out and now you are making feeble excusses for your past results "claiming" all will change with your new suspension ... if you were not so pathetic I would feel sorry for you ...


Just wait .... my "little" 1.6L SOHC Built N/A motor hung off a trully capable Honda Chasis will be propositioning your POS Nissan (from CSS1) making you wonder why you even bothered coming out ...

I give you credit though ... you actully think you have a chance



Let us all now bow or heads in sympathy for Adam


Cheers

Moose



heheheheheheheh

[ADAM]

another gauntlet has been dropped :) ...or slapped hard against the face of nissan it seems...

i agree last weekend was a very very very dismal performance(in fact i was laughing in the car at one point).....though pretty much what i expected in the rain, and driving on a shopping cart course :) though i did start having some fun lock to lock driving...

i have a GT car...not a shopping cart avoidance car....

we will see when the new season starts.......we will see

things are a slow progression towards the domination of all hondas by the POS nissan :)

[RedRabbit Racer]

I'm going to run out and buy a set of CTC Pacemarks before they are banned as an unfair advantage.

The solo 1 community has bigger problems than a perception that Hoosiers are faster and not fair and should be banned.

I'm certain the present Solo 1 Director could exercise his authority to end this debate and I also have no doubt the next Director will make his position clear.

Let's give the tire issue a rest and everybody concentrate on improving the driver to gain 0.5 seconds per lap!

[ADAM]

who is the next director? is there a vote or something coming up? how does it work?

[Dave]

Chris Sorensen is the only person I know of so far whose accepted a nomination for the position. There is an election for various board positions at the CASC-OR AGM meeting in November, where the new Solo 1 Director will be determined. Each CASC-affiliated club has a rep at this meeting (should they choose to show up) and each club receives a voting share proportionate to their membership size.