H-Stock Questions

[sjd]

I thought I would ask for clarification. I'm pretty sure that camber bolts are illegal in stock class, but what about if the factory service manual allows them to be used?
Also if I can't use camber bolts am I allowed to rotate the strut tops to acheive a bit more or do they have to be in the factory position?

[tanney]

[quoting the rule book]
Both the front and rear suspension may be adjusted through their designed range of adjustment by use of factory adjustment arrangements or by taking advantage of inherent manufacturing tolerances. However, no suspension part may be modified for the purpose of adjustment unless such modification is specifically authorized by the factory shop manual for non-competition purposes. Replacement control arms for vehicles having integral bushing/arm assemblies must be standard factory parts. If authorized by the manufacturer, the use of shims, special bolts, removal of material to enlarge mounting holes, and similar methods are allowed and the resulting alignment settings are permitted even if outside the normal specification or range of specifications recommended by the manufacturer. If enlarging mounting holes is specifically authorized, but no material removal limits are specified, material removal is restricted to the amount necessary to achieve the maximum factory alignment specification.[end quote]

To sum up, if the use of "crash bolts" are recommend by the manufacturer to fix alignment problems then yes you can. The line "However, no suspension part may be modified for the purpose of adjustment unless such modification is specifically authorized by the factory shop manual for non-competition purposes." says no you cannot rotate anything.

[sjd]

Thanks Wes. I tried downloading the rule book since I'm at work but it wouldn't open for me.

[thekid]

To sum up, if the use of "crash bolts" are recommend by the manufacturer to fix alignment problems then yes you can. The line "However, no suspension part may be modified for the purpose of adjustment unless such modification is specifically authorized by the factory shop manual for non-competition purposes." says no you cannot rotate anything.

Wes, under that same rule, wouldn't the rotation of strut mounts be allowed if it's specified in the factory workshop manual as a method for fixing alignment problems?

[tanney]

wouldn't the rotation of strut mounts be allowed if it's specified in the factory workshop manual as a method for fixing alignment problems? If it is in the factory workshop manual as a method then yes it is allowed.

I do know that with Hondas you can swap parts left side to right side to gain more caster.... that is not allowed.

[sjd]

Okay, I just went throught the factory shop manual and rotating the strut tops is allowed but there is no mention of camber bolts even though dealers are authorized to use them.

[Pete@Marcor]

Okay, I just went throught the factory shop manual and rotating the strut tops is allowed but there is no mention of camber bolts even though dealers are authorized to use them.

If the dealers are "authorized" to use them, there will be some sort of official documentation, from the Manfuacturer, meaning Mazda Canada. If you can get a copy of that document, then you are allowed to use them. If no such document exists, then the dealers are not authorized, in the context of our rules.

[sjd]

Thanks Pete, what I'm going on is people on the SCCA and Protege froums that have encountered the same thing. THey say dealers are allowed to use them but I haven't seen any documentation. Apparently Mazda U.S.A even sells the bolts and there are a quite a few people in the U.S. trying to get documentation but can't. If Mazda U.S.A doesn't have documenation on it, there's no way Mazda Canada will. I'm probably going to err on the side of caution and not run them. I won't do anything that I can't document.

[gatherer]

well just because Mazda dealers use a Factory mazda part doesn't make it factory authorized...

of course you might want to look at the factory service manuals available you might find that they have one that deals just with suspensions or alignments... however these books are ussually only available to their mechanics I've seen specific books like this from Honda. I have oen that just deals with electrical stuff on my car... not that it's any help to me. they are ussually called suppliments...

anyways I hope this helps in your search....

[Pete@Marcor]

Thanks Pete, what I'm going on is people on the SCCA and Protege froums that have encountered the same thing. THey say dealers are allowed to use them but I haven't seen any documentation. Apparently Mazda U.S.A even sells the bolts and there are a quite a few people in the U.S. trying to get documentation but can't. If Mazda U.S.A doesn't have documenation on it, there's no way Mazda Canada will. I'm probably going to err on the side of caution and not run them. I won't do anything that I can't document.

It may be a case that the dealers know of camber bolts, and are using them, but they do not have an official directive to do so. That makes them illegal for Stock use in our rules, unfortunately.

[13inches]

Steve, this whole conversation is irrelevant until you actually BEAT someone in the class. ;)

[sjd]

Steve, this whole conversation is irrelevant until you actually BEAT someone in the class. ;)

Thanks, Ryan. :rolleyes:

I've beat people in H-stock before. I've decided to return to stock class next year and I think need to work on my driving since my performance at the nationals.

[MazdaMatt]

Just yesterday I went to a shop with my prot5 and told them to rotate the tops. They went to the uber-knowledge shop computer and printed off a mazda supplied instruction sheet on how to rotate the tops and what effect it has on alignment. This is factory documentation. I now have 1.0* camber and 2.0* caster. Glee :D

Steve, i thought you were selling your prot5? I will be very interested to compete against you next year in CASC-OR Solo2 HS class :) Are you going to stick with sway bar and stock rims with R comps?

[Pete@Marcor]

well just because Mazda dealers use a Factory mazda part doesn't make it factory authorized...

Jason, can you clarify that statement? What do you mean? If the part is truly factory on the car, then it is factory authorized.

[thekid]

Jason, can you clarify that statement? What do you mean? If the part is truly factory on the car, then it is factory authorized.

What he might be getting at, is Mazda may have a crashbolt which can be used on several of their cars, but it was never actually installed on a car from the factory.

I haven't seen anything documented about crashbolts for these cars, but I'll double check my documentation and post up if I read otherwise.

[sjd]

Steve, i thought you were selling your prot5? I will be very interested to compete against you next year in CASC-OR Solo2 HS class :) Are you going to stick with sway bar and stock rims with R comps?

I was going to sell it but I don't want to spend 30-40K on a car and then beat on it like I did the P5. So I've decided to keep it and possibly buy a 2nd car in a year or two. And yeah I'm going to run R's on the stock rims with a rear sway bar. Also I have the factory documentation allowing us to rotate the strut tops if you need it.

[MazdaMatt]

Cool. I'm hoping to have R's and small lightweight rims instead.

How much camber/caster did you manage to get out of the plate rotation? I know you had camber bolts in there before.

[sjd]

I did the strut top rotation and bolts at the same time and ended up with -2.0 degrees. It should be fun in H-stock next year since there's always a full field. All I have to remove to be in H-stock is my intake, camber bolts and springs, so my car is practically stock anyway.