What are the regionals all about?

[tanney]

With all the call for change, there is one question that should be answered.....

What are the regionals?

Are the regionals the best of the best competing in the best on the best or are the regionals about a sampling of the best our region has to offer?

Are the regionals here to have the "elitist" compete against each other at the best venues in Ontario? If so we could very well be shooting ourselves in the foot and alienating newbies who are unsure of their driving skills and their ability to be competitive against the best.

Do the clubs organize the events or does the region?

We have a pretty diverse region here in Ontario and clubs that host a variety of events at a variety of venues. Are the regionals about sampling what each organizing club has to offer?

I am split. I love to compete against the best (and win of course), but I love to do it where diversity is the norm. I like how each club have their quirks and event "traditions", so to speak.

We have to remember that there is more to the Ontario region than Toronto, its surrounding urban sprawl and Ottawa and it's sprawl. There are clubs that host events across our province that have done so for a long time, each with their course design features, lots, and organizational traits. We in Toronto and Ottawa are fortunate to have the amenities that come with living in the "big city". Do some of the smaller communities have stadiums for professional sports teams or massive malls or big factories? No, unfortunately they don't. Should they be excluded because they don't? Does that not make us "big city folk" seem arrogant, conceded and stuck up, excluding small clubs because they don't live up to "our" (the big city folk) expectations?

In 2001 WOSCA ran at Siemens in Chatam. A small lot that wasn't in the best shape. PMSC ran at Sir Stanford Fleming in Lindsey. A couple of small lots with connecting roads similar to the Hershey Centre. St.Lac ran on one part of a runway at CFB Mountainview (with gliders taking off and land across from us). TAC ran at the Scarborough Town Centre in 2000 with a small and horrible lot. Each one of these events were a blast! Each one was a little bit different and I personally enjoyed seeing how each individual club did what they had to do with what they had available. Of course we didn't have 100 plus competitors out either in 2000 and 2001.

Are the regionals about competing against the best of the best in Ontario or about sampling the best of what each club in our vast region have to offer?

I have my opinion, what's yours? (please do not be condescending, rude or arrogant in your responses......)

[notsofast]

i've always stayed away from regionals as i'm not sure if i'm able to compete.. i'm under the impression that you need to be series registered or a part of a local club... i'm hesitant to sign up as my schedule doest always allow me to make it out to every or most events

how exactly do i go about competing at a regional? am i able to just walk up to the timming tent like all other events and sign up the same as always? or will i need to sign up for the series or become a local club member? just a couple newbie questions...

[Marsh]

I know I'm now considered an "old timer" but I've always believed that the regionals were about seeing what each club had to offer. Course designs and lot conditions can and SHOULD vary wildly. Regionals were not always a competition in which the best in the province ran the series, but it was a case of competing against the best there was because the local top talent always came out for their home regional. That's often not true anymore. It's good to see that the venues and courses are generally improving across the province, but it's a mistake to limit the regionals to the biggest lots. I don't buy the argument that it levels the playing field. The top drivers win on any kind of lot. It doesn't matter what the rule book, car selection or venue is. The top 10 finishers has changed very little in the 8 years I've been around.

[nitrowsb]

I think we should have multiple Regional Series running in Ontario and at the end of the year hold a "National" style event to determine the "Best" in Ontario Region.

[Guillermo]

In order to attract more drivers to each Ontario Regional Autoslalom I think we need to reduce the number of events. But I also see the novelty of driving far to try events organized by all the different clubs in Ontario. A possible solution is to have half the regionals events per year and each club hosts an event every 2 years. Best of both worlds and no club needs to be left out. What do you think?

[max attack]

For myself I've gone to considerably more effort than the average regional/club autox'er just in prep alone,factor in that I tow at least a 6 hour round trip to every event other than Bracebridge and Barrie and I think I should expect the best events on the best lots for a regional series.
I can pick a club event on a small/rough lot if I chose anytime thru the season but the regional's should be a step up both in lot quality AND driver pool.

That's what the regionals mean to me,right or wrong.

[miataboi]

For myself I've gone to considerably more effort than the average regional/club autox'er just in prep alone,factor in that I tow at least a 6 hour round trip to every event other than Bracebridge and Barrie and I think I should expect the best events on the best lots for a regional series.
I can pick a club event on a small/rough lot if I chose anytime thru the season but the regional's should be a step up both in lot quality AND driver pool.

That's what the regionals mean to me,right or wrong.

DAMN!!!!

Here I go agreeing with Tom AGAIN!!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

:D :cool:

[max attack]

[QUOTE=miataboi;86061]DAMN!!!!

Here I go agreeing with Tom AGAIN!!!!


I don't know where I got a bad rap for my opinions but........:rolleyes:


See I'm not so bad after all eh?.:p

[Tashko]

I usually only compete in the Regionals because I would assume the best and most dedicated people come out to them. I don't want to spend money on "uber" tires to use them up at club events.
I bought a less competitive/durable tire this year to go to more club events but work prevented that and I've had to sell off all my tires.
I will continue to mainly go to Regional events because I don't believe in spending money on sticky tires for a club series.
I guess I'm a competitive person because I only want to compete against the best that there is. I don't win but I still enjoy the challenge of competing against people I should beat in lower classes. I want to know how me and my car stack up against the best.
Next year I'll probably run RA1's and do club events for the practice but save the stickies for Regionals. I don't really care what the lot is. My car is supposed to be ESP which means it should have enough power and grip to be competitive against other SP cars.
I don't follow PAX at all. Doesn't interest me. I just want to beat other SP prepped cars; Tight lot, open lot, I don't care. However, I do think that Regionals should be on the best lots available to us. I don't want to do a Regional at Ontario Place but I'll show up if I can regardless.
I do agree that fewer Regional events would be better. Something like 4/6 would be good to allow for schedules but I think signing up for the Regionals means that you WILL drive 5hrs to compete for the championship. It would be even better if the Regional schedule was set early and carried over year after year and that you had to do each event!
My ideal would be if we had five regionals and they all counted for points and they were on the same date every year. If you're going to do Regionals you had to commit knowing what the schedule was. It's like you can do the F1 championship and pick and choose which event to run because it suits your car. Rubbish.
In addition to that, our Regionals are really a southern Ontario Regionals. The clubs that put them on do a great job and I appreciate the effort that goes into them. That's why I do what I can to show up regardless of the lot.
Consistency would be good.

That officially ends my longest post on the forums. :D

[JAYh]

I still like the "One Lap of Ontario" format (apologies Jason.) I use it as an excuse to do a little travelling during the summer. The way it currently is means even if I'm not competitive against the top dogs in my class, I will still come back for more events... (Because it's fun, and I always have the chance of scoring well when certain people don't show up. :D)

I always enjoy events by clubs I wouldn't normally run with. For example St LAC and OMSC have put on some outstanding regionals but they're just too far away for me to run their club slaloms.

So, my input would be, keep the series. I would probably pass on a three-day regionalgasm held in Toronto - that just doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. On the other hand I WILL be back for a proper regional series in 2007.

- J

[opal]

I ran the regionals in my first season, mostly because the people I knew were running it. If I wanted company, I ran the events.

Regionals are a step up, or three, in formality and seriousness. If I want goofing off and less rules, I'll go to a club event. That said, I expect the series to be fun, because if it's not I have lots of things I can do at home (like mow my lawn and sleep).

As one of the bottom of the heap drivers, I have concerns with the "best of the best" thing that keeps flying around. While I understand the point of view, what happens to us lowly okay drivers? Are we not worth having at an event?
That's very much the message I am getting over here.
If you want to encourage newbies to the series, I'd be very careful about throwing around the "best of the best" thing.

My regional characteristic checklist:
- 4-6 events
- 80+ competitors
- full classes to provide competition
- $40 entry fees (roughly)
- ammenities (lunch and washrooms - oh yes, that WAS appreciated this year)
- diverisity (locations, clubs)

As for the lots... I prefer to not have my brain rattling around in my skull during a run, so a lot that isn't chewed up is high on my list.
It's been said before, and I'll say it again: it's not the size, it's how you use it. ;)
Intelligent course design can make a less than stellar lot into a great day.

This year was my least fun experience with the Regionals. It comes down to attitude: mine, yours, the group as a whole. My attitude problem I can do something about. However, if it comes down to Regionals = Province-wide-bitch-session, well, I just got a whole lot more serious about HADA events.

[13inches]

Currently, the regionals are about travelling the province and getting a taste of what each of the clubs have to offer. The regionals are also about crowning provincial champions in each class and overall. The 2 are mutually exclusive. The question needs to be asked, which is there a need for?

There is a need for a Provincial Championship series to crown champions in each class and overall. This is why we compete. This should be the focus of the CASC Solo2 committee (I won't call it the regional committee, but you know who I'm talking about). This is where the national ruleset comes into play, the big events at the big venues, and this is where the best of the best should be. Protests, scrutineering, run groups, whatever...this is the big show and should be run like a big show.

If there is a need/want for travelling the province and getting a taste of what each of the clubs have to offer (a solo2 "wine tour", if you will), then keep it simple and fun. A "wine tour" series in this regard would not have its own ruleset, and should only include clubs that run a regular solo2 series. Any club only interested in holding 1 event a year (IE: SPDA, TAC, OMSC as recent examples) should participate as part of the Provincial Championship series. A "wine tour" series with the goal of visiting each clubs event would make a stop at one of the clubs regular events, allow the club to continue utilizing its own classing, scoring, course design etc etc. The "wine tour series" could then combine each competitor's score (as per the hosting clubs rules) to determine a winner for the series. Simple and fun. No CASC levies, protests, scruitneering etc. Let the club run the show 100%, and reap the rewards of the increased participation for the day.

The Provincial Championship events should not be a part of the Wine Tour series.

Is that about $0.02 worth yet?

[gatherer]

I don't know if the "big show" is whats needed. the nationals, which is suppose to be the biggest show in Canada was in Toronto this year, in a place that ussually boasts the largest autoslalom population in Canada, however turn out for the nationals by Toronto drivers has been discribed by some as "extremely disappointing"

so maybe the "big show" isn't what Ontario wants.

I'm all for the regionals being about crowning an Ontario Champion, hell being called an ontario champion is great when looking for sponsors to help pay the cost of competing. At the same time I think I'm alone or in a very small group when it comes to this use of the regionals.

As for what the regionals should be, I think they should be re-named to begin with. Drop the regional word. regional to be denotes GTA area or Ottawa area or Kingston area ... Call it "The Ontario Autoslalom Championship series" Quebec calls there championship a provincal championship, the name basically states the title that will be handed out by winning. We should be considering doing the same. You could have some serious opportunities to grow the sport by creating an ontario championship consisting of say 3 weekends (6 events in total, saturday and sunday, with best 4 counting towards a championship).

On top of that have a provincal championship opens up the space for a regional championships... say an eastern regional championship consisting of St. Lac, Ottawa and Peterborough. 6 events (3 weekends, with 4 of the events counting towards the championship) there would be a provincal weekend that would rotate around between the clubs regional weekends. so that competitors in the eastern regional series, had one of their weekends count towards the provincal championship.

Then you can add in a Toronto regional series, Say with COMP, HADA and MSOC each hosting an event. in the same style as the eastern regional series and one of the toronto events counting towards the provincal championship.

Add in a North west series and have WOSCA and ST. LAC organize those regional weekends with much of the same style as above with one of there events counting towards the provincal championship as well.

And hey I think that could open up some more competition and get more people into the sport. what would have to happen is regional and provincal event levels would need to have the same rules to help people make the move between the 2 types of events.

anyways thats my 2 cents as I find my way to the exit door

[Maddog]

As a newb who just started solo2 this year, I attended 2 club events before I did the 2 Regionals at Bronte. Although I wasn't competive as a fat ESP car on street tires(this will change for next year ;) ), I still had fun and didn't find things that much more "serious" at the Regionals. I would have liked to do more this year, but life (and lack of money..lol) got in the way.

I do agree that maybe the number of events should be dropped to the 5-6 per year, and as much "heads up" on the schedule is greatly appreciated for planning purposes.

[Marsh]

Jason, there's one problem I see with the "regional" series seperating from a provincial series. WOSCA IS the western series. We are the only club holding slaloms west of Oakville. Similar with TLMC and the north. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The debate is not weather there should be seperated areas of the province. The province only has two areas: "Toronto" and "not-Toronto". Anything that abandons the tour format is essentially excluding the "not-Toronto" clubs from the championship.

[gatherer]

Marsh, you quoted me but had nothing to say?

[Marsh]

Marsh, you quoted me but had nothing to say?

I clicked post by accident, it's been edited already.

[gatherer]

I see that now and it's a good point you make there.

[Pete@Marcor]

As for what the regionals should be, I think they should be re-named to begin with. Drop the regional word. regional to be denotes GTA area or Ottawa area or Kingston area ... Call it "The Ontario Autoslalom Championship series" Quebec calls there championship a provincal championship, the name basically states the title that will be handed out by winning. We should be considering doing the same.

Well, the reason we run the Ontario Region series is that we used to have the National Sanctioning body, CASC, and we are members of the CASC-OR. That stood for CASC - Ontario Region. We would have had the Atlantic Region, Quebec Region, Ontario Region, and then a Western Region, if I recall. CASC the National body had some issues a few years ago, and I think that they basically went under. Most of the other regions also went away. Then, new "Regional" Sanctioning bodies started up, and Ontario was the only area that stayed with the CASC moniker. I would assume it is because CASC-OR as an incorporation did not ever cease to exist.

So, the Regional series is an all-Ontario series, with the Nationals an event that the National sanctioning body will deal with.

When it comes to what I think of an Ontario Region series, I think it is just a step up in the level of competition. It is important to get a wide variety in flavours or events. To me, I expect the better guys to come to those, but it is also very important for a less expereinced person to come out, to see what the next level of competition is like, and to see where they need to get to.

[Rob]

After considering some of the other posts in this thread I'm leaning towards the "elite" view of the regional series rather than the "provincial tour" approach.

I've now competed in the regional series for three seasons and worked/learned my way from a bottom-of-the run-list-newbie to someone who can finish mid-pack on a good day. I've also had the opportunity to run club-level events with several different clubs. Some observations:

1) IMHO the regional series is more focused on driver competition than most of the club series. Most (not all) of the club series have a much simpler classing system, which is good for a fun day of driving, but doesn't correct for differences in cars and prep levels as effectively as the more complicated regional system.

2) The regional series has had to deal with some ugly protests, arguments and forum bitch/whine sessions that (I hope) would be shrugged off in a club series. I think this is an inevitable consequence of a more competition-oriented series.

3) No one has ever told me that I wasn't good enough to participate in the regionals, but I have heard several people say that the regionals are not for beginners - the message has been to “learn the basics at club events, then move up to the regionals”.

4) A number of people have posted concerns on this forum about falling turn-out for the regionals and about a need to bring new drivers into the series.

5) There is a perception among at least some participants that the regional series should be as inclusive as possible and that every club has a right to participate by holding an event.

6) The regional series does not really show the diversity of the clubs - the same set of rules and the classing system are imposed on each event and the regional timing system is used for each one. From a competitor's perspective, the only thing that changes, event to event, is the venue.

So where am I going with this? Two concepts:

A) There is definitely a "hard core" of competitive drivers who want to compete for top status, and there are also people who recognize that they won't win but want to compete anyway, because they want to compare themselves to the best and see how the best drivers handle a course. These are the drivers who are most willing to travel long distances for events. These are also the drivers who spend money on V710s and modifying their cars (or at least optimizing them for a particular class). For this group a competitive series with a complex classing system and mechanisms for protests and disputes is required. In light of the effort that competitors will put into their cars and this series, I think it should have high standards for venues and for organization. I don't think any club should have a "right" to hold an event in this series - its more a matter of a club "earning" an event due to having a good venue, having a good organization, and having a contingent of competition-oriented drivers as club members. While this series should not exclude people, it shouldn’t cater to beginners. And for that matter, having a high turn-out shouldn’t be a priority – quality of competition should be.

I think this is what the regional series should be. A rule set and car classification system that has enough detail to bring driving skill to the forefront. A protest and dispute-settling mechanism to handle grievances. An organization that can draw on the participating clubs to provide enough volunteers to staff all of the committee positions that are required. The number of events should be determined by the number of clubs that (i) have a good venue; (ii) can handle the organization (including providing a share of the volunteers needed by the series) and (iii) have a minimum number of club members registered for the regional series. It would also be reasonable to require that any club that will host a regional event will not schedule an event that conflicts with any other regional event.

B) This would leave the local clubs to do what I think they do best – running local events with rules that suit the local participants on local venues. Some clubs would focus less on competition and more on fun, refining your driving skills and introducing new drivers to the sport. These events would offer a more relaxed environment to those who don’t want to spend the money required to be competitive – and don’t want to be involved in the inevitable arguments that come up in a competitive series. Street tire classes can be accommodated at the club level. There’s nothing to stop a club from setting up a more competitive event of series of event if that club wants to. Finally, those who want to travel to participate in events with different clubs, at different venues , are free to do that in any way they wish – and there can be joint events between two or three clubs.

[Slowpoke]

I'm hearing a lot of good thoughts here... Regional to me means area. Varied areas if it's the Ontario Regional series, obviously. Hopefully having challenging competitors to contest and compare yourself to by journeying to the southern reaches of the province.

Jason, I really like the "Ontario Provincial Series" rather than "Regional Series" ... regional sounds like I'm the best boy scout in my troop because I knew how to tie the most knots. A "thank you" plaque to your supporters that says "Ontario Provincial Champion" is more significant than "Ontario Regional Champion". Semantics, but significant to those not familiar with the inner workings of the CASC.

Tashko... like you, I can't help but have the best tires to compete with at Regional and National events. I tried the hard durable tires and compared myself to some very good drivers, in good equipment, on the same tire... but didn't like equipment being a deciding factor versus overall PAX and FTD. Thus, regionals will be a more expensive prospect for me. When my Hoosiers cord, my regional participation might become extremely sporadic in favour of other motorsports efforts...

Do I mind a $50 Ontario Provincial Championship event fee when lunch is provided and we're on a good lot, running a challenging (not stupidly concocted lock-to-lock first gear nonsense with no rhythm) course with 6 runs of 45 seconds or more? When the provincial series means something? Even if it was three or more hours to drive there in a caravan with other club members? Hell no. But driving three hours for a lame event is... tiring, a waste of time and lame. Driving 20 minutes to a close and lame event is convenient, but lame nonetheless.

We do regionals for the driving challenge. Provide that, and politics aside, you should get good drivers. TLMC, HADA and COMP Bronte offered challenging drives. (I missed a few this year, so I apologize for some clubs not named.) OMSC, TAC and SPDA brought a different, challenging and fun element to Solo2 with track-situated precision driving offering elevation change and camber in the turns. Gotta say that the latter were my favourite Solo 2 driving experiences, even though my performance sucked at a couple of those events. The Nationals... I couldn't adapt my driving to the lot, but great course design and fantastic competition from the US, the west and the east. Fantastic event.

Province wide? Yup, but make it four scored out of six to eight events, please.

Blocking CASC sanctioning of other Solo 2 events on the same day... potentially dangerous to the prominence of the CASC, objectionable on principle ... but worth considering. If you're going to do that, don't think of charging a separate regional series registration fee if you want the local "best of the best" to show up at one event to compete against the travellers.

There are a couple of clubs that I see supporting new members starting in regional motorsports in a huge way... Ask yourself if your club is doing more to encourage Regional competion? Regionals being the "best of the best" isn't a formidable prospect if you're part of a team. Heck, at my first ever event (WOSCA, Blandford Mall), SPDA members were inviting me for ridealongs in their cars, advising on tire pressures, riding with me to give me advice, and telling me (at my request) how many events to do to best prep myself for a Regional Novice Championship attempt the next year, etc. I wouldn't be enjoying the different types of motorsport that I'm doing today if it wasn't for the members, organizers, and volunteers of clubs I joined, and in some cases just visited at an event. (Currently a member of SPDA, BMW Trillium and HADA.)

[7plymaple]

Holy way too long posts to answer the simplest question (well in my opinion). The regionals are about fun. What else do you get out of them? Why else would you do this?

To answer Wes's question thats my opinion. Im not questioning anyone else. But I have had to ask myself the same question year after year (mainly to help justify tire purchases lol) and thats the best I could ever do. And it was more than enough.

[fritZman]

Regionals to me is facing the best drivers in the province, on a quality lot, organized by a competent club.

The fewer the events, the better. Best 4 of 6 (3 weekends) would be perfect and definitely worth the effort.

[Gwoody27]

Well to start it is important to remember that all of these events are run by volunteers without whose time and effort nothing would happen. I am a novice this year and had a great time thanks to the many organizers, thanks.

My opinion:
This is entry level motorsports and I can attest that it is less expensive than go karting. to me solo 2 is for 3 types of people:

1. Novices: who want to learn about competition and/or how to drive their car better. These people want an event that is close to them, that is fun and has people who will help them. They may or may not want a street tire class. If they like it they will become a regular club attendee and a possible regional entrant.

2. Out for Fun: people have learned that this is a great hobby/sport and will come out for fun and friendly competition. They may be very satisfied to compete against themselves, getting better every run. They may want to invest in car upgrades and R tires. These people will value a local event with people they know well and they may take in a regional event if one is close by.

3. Serious Competitors: want to win a provincial title, will invest in their cars and certainly use R tires. They want to run against the best cars and competitors on the longest, fastest courses. I believe that these people will travel large distances in order to find this environment, in fact are looking for variety and challenge. Novices in this group are likely those who want to compete at the highest level, having tried local events.

The one thing in common here is that every group wants value for money and time spent. Value in fun, information, track time, competition. So how can we increase value?

With these things in mind and realizing that local groups are doing a good job in meeting the needs of the Novices and Out for Fun groups, I suggest that a "Provincial" series be run. This "Provincial" series needs to cater to the Serious Competitors but welcome the "Out for Fun" group as well.
In order to increase the value for money, I suggest that 5 or 6 double header events be held and run as 2 events in one day. From 10:00am to 1:30 pm the course is run in clockwise direction. Break for 45 mins, then run the course in the opposite direction and end at say 5:30 pm. I would guess that 5 runs in each direction is possible, making the travel and time commitment reasonable. People could block out the day and get more track time, more competition and spend less overall time than today. In 2006 we ended many events in the very early afternoon, so I believe this is possible to do. Furthermore it reduces organizer time and reduces the total # "Provinical" days required making scheduling around local events easier. Perhaps a club/team challenge is possible.

As for scoring I think the classes are fine as they are but we need to adjust PAX to the average times achieved in the last 3 years by class so that it represents the reality of our regular field.

Finally, these events could be organized by local clubs or by a "provincial" committee. The goal ought to be to make the events memorable and if possible to get some local interest as is happening now in Milton. To me the ideal result would be a series sponsored in full by the OPP, held annually in key cities with the profile of the Barrie go kart Grand Prix, with local sponsors underrighting the costs so that the series regulars could run for free in return for teaching street racers that this is safer and better. A win-win.

OK enough, thanks for reading.

[JAYh]

Why does everyone want double-header weekends so much? I don't like that idea at all. For those of us more than an hour or so from the event, we'd have to bring overnight stuff, spring for a hotel, restaraunt food, etc. etc. AND basically commit the whole weekend to hanging around in a parking lot. And to top it off if something major breaks on the first day there's no way to have it ready for the second... I'd honestly prefer to drive two hours each way to two consecutive Sunday events than have a double-header weekend.

Really when the weekend comes around I'd rather have one day to do motorsports and one day for everything else that I've got on the burner.

- J

[1morelap]

Why does everyone want double-header weekends so much? I don't like that idea at all. For those of us more than an hour or so from the event, we'd have to bring overnight stuff, spring for a hotel, restaraunt food, etc. etc. AND basically commit the whole weekend to hanging around in a parking lot. I'd honestly prefer to drive two hours each way to two consecutive Sunday events than have a double-header weekend.

Really when the weekend comes around I'd rather have one day to do motorsports and one day for everything else that I've got on the burner.

- J


For those in the region that travel much farther than 1 hour. It would be a lot easier on them if they could get two events for the price of one hotel/dinner/ etc.etc.

[gatherer]

also for those that don't want to have every single weekend consumed by racing double headers really help to condense the schedule and give more weekends off for whatever reason a competitor might want them off say, Family? new love? a romp in a hay field? building a house? having a spouse committed? whatever the reason most autoslalom competitors would be happy with a 6 event schedule over 3 weekends then a 6 event schedule over 6 weekends... (and either would be better then a 10 event schedule over 8 weekends)

[Marsh]

For those in the region that travel much farther than 1 hour. It would be a lot easier on them if they could get two events for the price of one hotel/dinner/ etc.etc.

Jay DOES travel more than one hour. In fact he travels more than 1:45 for every single event on the circuit. What he's saying (and I totally agree) is that for a single event all your out is the gas and entry fee (~$50). For a double header your out less gas (save $20-$30), but then you have to pay for a hotel ($60-$100), dinner on the first night ($15 - $20) and breakfast the next morning ($10). It's an extra $100 to do a double header for us.

Double header weekends are MUCH more expensive than single events. The exception being events that are over 4 hours away because most people will come the day before and get a hotel anyway (ie MCO). If you stay at a hotel for a 2 hour drive then a driving sport might not be right for you.

[max attack]

My vote is for the double header option,ends being cheaper for me(sort of)as my round trips are generally 6 hours and fuel for the truck runs about $100-much rather spend that $100 on a room and be comfortable than burning fuel up and down the same old hwy for single day events.
Besides like Jason say's it would free up my weekends for family time or more club events.

[msix]

The name "Regional" Series is quite fitting, because that's what it is right now.
It caters to the GTA Region.

If you want to call it a "Provincial" Series (or Cup or whatever) then you better make it more acommodating for the Drivers across the Province.

So three double header weekends, one in the East, one in the Centre and one weekend in the West would be fair to almost everyone in terms of time spent on the road, traveling costs, etc. So everybody can and should be competing and no more excuses. Three weekend booked at the beginning of the year, no date conflicts with other club events.

Some people need to look a bit further than their nose when they make a cost comparison between 10 events and 3 Double header weekends.
There are quite a few people where that cost comparison goes the other way and it is 5 or 6 times $200 + weekends and maybe two "more local" events.

If you really want to be competitive and mix with the guys fighting for the top spot you do need to attend more than the minimum 6 events to maximize your chances. As it was brought up a few times here, that with a couple of double header weekends this year and the local events, EVEN the Easteners could have EASILY done enough events to compete in the Series.
Right ----> Wrong!
You do your six events, then all you can do is watch when everyone else can maximize their points.

Max attack is absolutely right with his comments.

Klaus

[tanney]

The name "Regional" Series is quite fitting, because that's what it is right now.
It caters to the GTA Region.



Good to see someone is paying attention to the "Regional" schedule....
Ottawa, Picton, London, Peterborugh, Barrie, Bracebridge actually two events in Bracebridge, Mosport...... 8 events OUTSIDE of the GTA.....

Oakville, 2 events.... Two events this year were in the GTA so how exactly does this make it a GTA Regional series. Should they ALL be in Ottawa? Would that appeace you?

I was reading and listening to what people had to say and then I read this arrogant post....... [shakes head and walks away]

I am embarassed to admit I'm from Eastern Ontario after reading this crap!

[Dave L]

I belive this is why we have a number of events and points are counted for six of them. I didnt go to ottawa because I felt it was too far but I did drive to Picton, London and Mosport. The truth is all of the events were a far drive for me and I think most competing in the series drive quite far to the events. I have included a map of the events and I dont think you could come up with a better spread through out the province.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads8/ontsolo21159029777.jpg

I like the idea of the double header weekends, and I like variety with the "track" events and the parking lot events. Overall I would say that all of the clubs do a great job and each have unique events. I enjoy the regionals. Throughout the series I have questioned why I have just driven 200+ KM for 5 minutes of fun but at the end of the day I am sure I will be signing up again.

[miataboi]

... I have questioned why I have just driven 200+ KM for 5 minutes of fun ...


I understand... same thing happens to me on the way home from a booty call... :(

Seems I'm build for speed.... not endurance.. :(

[msix]

Good to see someone is paying attention to the "Regional" schedule....
Ottawa, Picton, London, Peterborugh, Barrie, Bracebridge actually two events in Bracebridge, Mosport...... 8 events OUTSIDE of the GTA.....

Oakville, 2 events.... Two events this year were in the GTA so how exactly does this make it a GTA Regional series. Should they ALL be in Ottawa? Would that appeace you?

I was reading and listening to what people had to say and then I read this arrogant post....... [shakes head and walks away]

I am embarassed to admit I'm from Eastern Ontario after reading this crap!


Beauty ... ha!!

I guess you forgot what you wrote in your opening message:

quote ..
I have my opinion, what's yours? (please do not be condescending, rude or arrogant in your responses......)
__________________
Wes Tanney
CASC-OR Solo 2 Director


I dont know why I would have to explain this when so many others have done so before.

When I say GTA I did not imply Downtown Toronto, maybe I should say Greater GTA, which would include anything within 2 hours of Toronto (meaning, get up early in the morning drive theres and be home by evening)

Whether you live in the Eastend, Westend or Northend of Toronto most of the events you have listed are within 1.5 to 2 hours away, maximum.

Picton, Mosport, Peterborough may only be away 1 hour or so away for the folks living in the Eastend of Toronto, where it would be only 1 hour for Westerners to London and Barrie and Bracebridge is close for the Driver living in the North of Toronto.

Yes someone from the K-W or London area have to go 3 to 4 hours to some events (Picton, Mosport, Peterborough), but still have more events within a two hour drive.

You (being from the East) should know then how far it is from here to most events. Excluding the Ottawa event of course ALL other events are more than 2.5 hours away. More like 4 - 6 hrs which also means driving there the day before, staying overnight and be home by LATE night.

Thats what I meant when I say "caters to the GTA".

Sorry if thats what you percieve "arrogant and crap".

There are a few people from London or Huntsville that would have to drive as far as a lot of people from Ottawa if they would want to seriously participate in the whole Series and there are a lot of people that do have the same opinion. There a few and were a few from Ottawa that are trying to do a whole series or at least 6 events, but thats not the crowd that you need to make the Regional a success.

I dont know what makes my point of view arrogant and carp. :(

All I am saying is to make it a SPECIAL Competition for everyone in the Province ---- three big Double Headers and everybody will come to meassure up against the elite.

Now I am walking away shaking my head. You can be embarassed now!

Klaus

[Tashko]

Distances from Google. Not to the venue itself but it should be close enough.

Oakville: Toronto - 50kms ; Ottawa - 480kms
Picton: Toronto - 206kms ; Ottawa - 257kms
Bracebridge: Toronto - 196kms ; Ottawa 396kms
Barrie: Toronto - 88kms ; Ottawa - 512kms
London: Toronto - 192kms ; Ottawa - 616kms
Peterborough: Toronto - 128kms ; Ottawa - 267kms
Bowmanville: Toronto - 70kms ; Ottawa - 334kms
Toronto <-> Ottawa - 430kms

Toronto - 1360 ; Ottawa - 2862

How should the venues be chosen? How do you determine which club's members would compete in the regionals if venues were closer?
You would think GTA would be able to produce enough competitors but as this year has shown that isn't the necessarily the case. For whatever reason people didn't come out this year.

Double headers for 6 events and similar driving distance:
Oakville: Toronto - 50kms ; Ottawa - 480kms
Ottawa: Toronto - 430kms ; Ottawa - 0kms
Picton: Toronto - 206kms ; Ottawa 257kms

What do you do about other venues that people enjoy? Would people do a double header in Picton? People complain about the abrasive surface. (How about a poll?:eek: )

[brujack]

The Regional/Ontario series should be about the best competitors on the best lots. These are not club events. There should not be 10 events. All of the competitors can run their local series. If they want to step up then they can run the Regional/Ontario series. Why would anyone want to drive a bunch of hours to compete on a lot that causes any one of the following issues: crap pavement, pin cones, slow speeds, 30 sec courses == no fun. Make a 3 double header weekends, on good lots, spread across Ontario and maybe competitors will want to come out. Honestly, people with 1-2 years of experience are just not going to be competitive against properly prepped cars and experienced drivers, but what I see at the current Regional series is a few fast drivers, and a bunch of OK drivers. Plenty of competitive drivers can't or won't make the commitment to 10 events on mostly mediocre lots with OK drivers while driving mostly around the Toronto area.

On another note the current Regional series relies pretty heavily on the hosting club to run each event. Not understanding how the money works, something does not add up to me. The local club provides: the lot, the cones, the setup of the course, the tear down of the course, the porta potty, all advertising, among other things. The Regional people bring the timing system, a couple of timers and help register the competitors. From my perspective what is in it for the local club? Potential loss of an local event and a whole lot of headache. What does the Regional series get: a free venue that competitors just show up to and run.

Additionally there is the issue of the events just not being fun. I have attending a few of the events over the past few years. What I can say is that there are a few people heavily involved in the Regional series that really suck the fun factor right out of the events. They are not nice to be around either in person or on this board. There is a lack of respect for the local clubs, competitors and all of the volunteers that allow this series to exist.

To sum up the Regional series has too many events around Toronto and is not fun. Fix these issues and the series stands a chance or continue on the current path to obsolescence.

Bruce

P.S. Wes is that how you treat someone with respect who is offering their opinion?

[thekid]

On another note the current Regional series relies pretty heavily on the hosting club to run each event. Not understanding how the money works, something does not add up to me. The local club provides: the lot, the cones, the setup of the course, the tear down of the course, the porta potty, all advertising, among other things. The Regional people bring the timing system, a couple of timers and help register the competitors. From my perspective what is in it for the local club? Potential loss of an local event and a whole lot of headache. What does the Regional series get: a free venue that competitors just show up to and run.

No one forces a club to host a regional event. The truth of the matter is there are a couple of clubs that only run a regional event and don't run club series, so obviously they either feel it's a worthwhile endeavour (ie. they will make money or they want to give something to the series).

First clubs complained that there was a per head leavy when the regional series came town, now there is a flat rate, so the club knows ahead of time what their liabilities for the event are, this is why it's up to the club to do the promoting. The series has left it up to the clubs to decide if they want to run a profitable event or not by leaving it up to the club to generate the interest for a particular event.

With everyone asking the number of events to be cut back to 6, the series might be in a position of having to turn away clubs next year, you wouldn't think that would be an issue if it's such a burden to host an event.

To run a regional series without the help of the clubs could have it's pros and cons. I'd see the major difficulty being two fold, trying to find enough volunteers

[craig]

MHO:

Ontario Champions should be determined at one (and only one) event of two days, held as close to the GTA as possible, because that is where the majority of people live. Run it in late September or early October. Use the national ruleset. No overall champion, just class champions, no PAX. Three runs *maximum*, in run groups. (Additional runs will happen, but only the first three runs count.) No club event can conflict with this one (and only one) event, and *every* CASC-OR clubs' series must count this event towards their individual club championships. This will ensure a reasonable turnout. This event should not be run by an individual club, but by a consortium of clubs and CASC-OR.

Am I in essence saying that the regional series should be killed? Yes - as a means of determining Ontario Champions.

The regional series is a leftover from when there were very few clubs running their own series. Now that there are many clubs running their own successful series, particularly in the GTA, the regionals are essentially in competition with those events. This is not healthy, and reducing the number of events and going to more double-headers is a compromise that just makes things worse for the majority of competitors (i.e., those in the GTA).

My (wet) 0.02.

[brujack]

Financial Risk

It appears to me that the Regional Series assumes 0 financial risk. The local clubs assume all of the risk. How about this as a proposal: Run the Regional Series as the local clubs do; meaning the Regional competitors assume all of the financial risk. Since the Regional series assumes no risk at this point and by extension the competitors assume no risk, there is no skin in the game. No one cares if anyone shows up except for the local club. Since the local clubs have few people who attend Regional events on a regular basis and since the Regional series expects to not have inexperienced people running, the local club can get really screwed financially if no one shows up. Someone with the registration info for this year and past years should be able to do an analysis to break down the events into 2 groups: Regional registered and non-Regional registered. I suspect that you will find that on average 30-40 Regional registered people show up for an event. Is that financially viable for 10 events or even 6. I doubt it. Once you factor in the cost of the lot, trailer, cones, truck to tow trailer, and all of the other misc costs. The Regional Series is very lucky that the clubs allow them to run at their lots with their equipment.

Assume the risk, improve the series.

Bruce

[tanney]

I guess you forgot what you wrote in your opening message:

Your right. Klaus I apologize. If that is your opinion you are indeed entitled to it.

I was just pointing out, in my own special way, that all of the events were not GTA specific this year.

[AlexeiS]

My $0.02, as a newer driver to the series:

There's too many events. I think so partly for cost, mainly for the dirty looks I get from family and such. I only went to the minimum 6 events this year, and that was stretching things. Some of us also enjoy other venues (Rally-X! :D ) and would like to have the ability to compete in those as well as Regionals.

As for newb/street tire classes, that would have been nice for this year :p IMHO, it's worth investigating whether a novice, street tire class system could be setup so the new drivers have a decent shot at "winning". The novice championship is good, but it's disheartening to see someone much faster than you in your same "class". Maybe something as simple as showing the novice event standings in the paper postings separately with PAX would give novice drivers a sense of accomplishment.

I made the conscious decision to run street tires this year while learning the WRX, I will definitely be running Rs next year and prepping the car more. I can't imagine running another season of Regionals on uncompetitive tires.

All in all, I really did enjoy the season. I'll be looking forward to next season even more now that I've seen most of the lots :)

[Doug Phillips]

I understand... same thing happens to me on the way home from a booty call... :(

Seems I'm build for speed.... not endurance.. :(

You better stick with the race rubbers. :D

[max attack]

You better stick with the race rubbers. :D

Along with that your not supposed to go out with a fully loaded gun-rookies!:rolleyes:

[Suzie]

I understand... same thing happens to me on the way home from a booty call... :(

Seems I'm build for speed.... not endurance.. :(


You know the solution (same as for autox improvement, but with an inversion re speed) - seat time, seat time, seat time :D

[TOYSRUS]

DITTO for everything MAX said in this thread....saves me writing and you reading.....:D

[max attack]

DITTO for everything MAX said in this thread....saves me writing and you reading.....:D


I'm stunned!

I'm always made to be the bastard child around here with my ideas/opinions and now there's at least 3 people that think as I do!:eek:


:D :D

[miataboi]

I'm stunned!

I'm always made to be the bastard child around here with my ideas/opinions and now there's at least 3 people that think as I do!:eek:


:D :D

MAYBE.... you've only now just strated to think like US!
You've come a long way, grasshopper...

:D :D

[max attack]

MAYBE.... you've only now just strated to think like US!
You've come a long way, grasshopper...

:D :D

Nah,I'm convinced it's the other way around.;)

[MazdaMatt]

Well i was reading quite dilligently till about page 3 when it turned into a bitch session... Too many details trying to be hammered out all at once with individual people having their own individual problems.

KEEP IT SIMPLE

-same classing system at all regionals - only makes sense.
-Double headers are for people with no lives outside of racing. Some people have families and friends and even work or household obligations. I can understand 1 or two double headers, but only in places where a tent can be set up or else I won't be going.
-fewer events seems to be the will of everyone. Best 4 of six sounds beautiful to me.

As for getting more people, why don't all of the club organizers pass out a flier to the next Ontario event at every one of their own events? 80% of autocrossers don't know that this website exists, so how are they to know that the series even exists.

With a best 4 of six series, having two eastern, three central and one western event sounds like it would at least cater proportionally to the masses. Still trying to stick with the 'simple' theme.

As for venue, best events this year: bracebridge and mosport. These venues are above and beyond the club racing experience. I loved racing at the ScotiaBank Place, and TLMC for their huge flowing courses.

I don't know what the deal is with this 'best of the best' b.s. Are you trying to say that beginners need not apply? Lose that opinion right now if you want any success in this series. I am a newbie. i lost consistantly at regionals, but i got a lot better BECAUSE of regionals.

[Pete@Marcor]

I am a little surprised at the polar opinions I see of people who still are against whatever is associated with anything GTA related. I live in Kitchener, so does that make me a GTA person? I don't really consider myself to be, but on the other hand, I would not be too upset if more than the current number of events were held CLOSER to the GTA, when it comes to driving to them. Personally, I like the variety of going to different clubs, to see what they have to offer. So, I drive across Ontario to get to them.

The population of Ontario is over 32 million. The population of the GTA is approximately 5.7 million, suggesting that 1/8th of our competitors would live in the GTA. Is that true? I would have to do a bit of work to find out exactly.

As I mentioned, I live in Kitchener. So, to get to 10 Regional events this summer, I drove:
Picton - 303km
Bracebridge - 261km, and stayed at a hotel for 2 nights.
Oakville - 78km
Oakville - 78km, and did the trip again, to get a driveshaft for a stranded Quebec competitor.
Peterborough - 225km
London - 109kn
Barrie - 164km
Ottawa - 528km, and a I stayed at a hotel for one night.
Mosport DDT - 191 km

Total - 1937km, plus my trip for Carl

From what I can see, I am one of 2 competitors who have attended every Regional in 2006. So, I can relate to what people say about having to drive far. But, this is an Ontario-wide series. If you don't want to drive almost 2000 km to 10 events, don't. But, don't complain to me that I don't know what it is like, and that all of the events are close to my home. Also, having the 10 events increases your chances for overall. The top 2 competitors were the only 2 to attend each event.

Regionals are about the top level of competition, with a different flavour at each event. It is not solely reserved for experienced or top level competitors, but the events themselves are a step up from a club event.

Should we have fewer events? Maybe, and I think we are going to have a best 4 of 6 series for next year. That means turning away a few clubs, and eliminating a couple of venues. I would think that we should alternate the off years for clubs, so that they can host one every 2 years if they would like.

Do we cater to the GTA? I don't think so, unless you think London and Barrie are GTA.

I have read that a couple of people think that the "Region" is getting a deal by being able to run at an event with no financial investment. A few things: The "Region" is a group of competitors/volunteers who run the scoring and timing for a Regional event. They have a budget that is funded by CASC-OR. The financial commitment of a club is similar to a club event. If they want to host a better/larger event, they may move their event to a different lot, with more costs. This is not a requirement.

Next, if there were a financial investment beyond this of the "Region", don't you think that they should expect some sort of return on their investment? I think that some of the clubs may have an issue with the "Region" taking more of the money that they feel they are working hard to get.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the "Region" take over all of the organization of every event in the series, but that may be an option. I would prefer that does not happen, as I like going to different events that are organized by different clubs. Since there are 10 clubs who have previously been involved in organizing a Regional event, and I would hope that most events made money. So, this is revenue that many clubs rely on that would go away.

Also, one needs to remember that all of these volunteers are also members of one club or another. They are not some un-named bureaucrat.

All of these points are great conversation pieces for the end of year discussion meeting. Why is it that maybe 12 people showed up last year? Come out and offer your comments.

[Pete@Marcor]

As for getting more people, why don't all of the club organizers pass out a flier to the next Ontario event at every one of their own events? 80% of autocrossers don't know that this website exists, so how are they to know that the series even exists.

Back before the online promotion existed, it was common to give out flyers for upcoming events. Also, it was in the flyer one got with the results package. The one that was MAILED to us. :-)


As for venue, best events this year: bracebridge and mosport. These venues are above and beyond the club racing experience. I loved racing at the ScotiaBank Place, and TLMC for their huge flowing courses.

I disagree, but that is a personal opinion. I like flowing Solo 2 courses on large lots, if possible. I liked Ottawa, but I also liked Peterborough. Amazing what a club can do with a tiny lot.

I don't know what the deal is with this 'best of the best' b.s. Are you trying to say that beginners need not apply? Lose that opinion right now if you want any success in this series. I am a newbie. i lost consistantly at regionals, but i got a lot better BECAUSE of regionals.

Get used to losing. :-) But, as soon as you get used to winning, the losing is a lot less fun. heh....

[TOYSRUS]

From what I can see, I am one of 2 competitors who have attended every Regional in 2006. So, I can relate to what people say about having to drive far. But, this is an Ontario-wide series. If you don't want to drive almost 2000 km to 10 events, don't. But, don't complain to me that I don't know what it is like, and that all of the events are close to my home. Also, having the 10 events increases your chances for overall. The top 2 competitors were the only 2 to attend each event.

Pete, I think this highlights one of the weakness of the series - the winners shouldn't necessarily be the ones who attended the most events. I chose to travel to 5 venues this year competing in my 6 events required 1171km (although 2261km would have been my total for all 10...I too stayed in a hotel for one of the weekends) Hanif and you aside :) , I think the top ten would look a little different if we promoted driving skill as opposed to driver dedication.

Do we cater to the GTA? I don't think so, unless you think London and Barrie are GTA..

I wouldn't phrase it that way but you have to admit it favours the west end of the province...( an ottawa competitor would require an additional 1100+km to compete in the 10 events as you did )

[Pete@Marcor]

Pete, I think this highlights one of the weakness of the series - the winners shouldn't necessarily be the ones who attended the most events. I chose to travel to 5 venues this year competing in my 6 events required 1171km (although 2261km would have been my total for all 10...I too stayed in a hotel for one of the weekends) Hanif and you aside :) , I think the top ten would look a little different if we promoted driving skill as opposed to driver dedication.



I wouldn't phrase it that way but you have to admit it favours the west end of the province...( an ottawa competitor would require an additional 1100+km to compete in the 10 events as you did )

I think it is more of an issue with the North thing. The problem is that there is only one or 2 clubs serious enough to run an event that is up in the middle of nowhere. ;) Maybe we should look into where the majority of competitors come from?

I don't see driver's skill as the only factor in determining a champion. Car prep, and dedication to the sport DO have a factor in who should be crowned the champion. If it were solely based upon the guy who attended the most events, then we would change the scoring to be the best 10 or 10, or even the best 6 of 6. I don't think that is fair, and it allows a competitor to both drop a few events, or not attend if he feels it is not needed.

An Ottawa competitor would have needed an additional 800km or so, but the point is that not a lot even came close. How many Ottawa competitors actually attended the 6 events?

Who is going to organize the events close to Ottawa? If more are up there, will more attend those events?

I will do a little bit of work regarding the distances. Is this the only stumbling block to more Ottawa guys coming out?

[TOYSRUS]

I think a reduced schedule with events located such has been suggested will solve this issue and from what I've heard and seen this past month there will be some NEW names atop the leaderboard next year....all from the east;)

[TOYSRUS]

ps...were your mileage totals one way or round trip??

[runwhatyabrung]

I don't know where you are getting your milleage from but when I did the 2005 regionals this is the milleage I racked up (Included a few overnighters at hotels)

Accumulated KM for 2005 GTA series from Ottawa

20050529 584 KM to Picton and back
20050611 794 Km to Mosport and back
20050710 564 Km to Douro and back
20050730 1002 KM to Brampton and back
20050814 292 KM PMG (Whoooo home event)
20050826 392 to Bracebridge
20050827 200 KM Bracebridge to Brampton
20050828 501 Km Brampton to Ottawa

For a grand total of 4329 KM over 6 week-ends for 7 events. You defininetelly need to be stupid (I qualify) to try and participate in a 10 event series from Ottawa. And as for the claim that clubs make money off the regionals by having an event there, that would only happen if you try to do it on the cheap. I don't think MCO has made any money off the regional's week-ends in the past 3 years, it's probably "subsidized" by our regular series and competitors.

[h-bomb]

Pete, I think this highlights one of the weakness of the series - the winners shouldn't necessarily be the ones who attended the most events. I chose to travel to 5 venues this year competing in my 6 events required 1171km (although 2261km would have been my total for all 10...I too stayed in a hotel for one of the weekends) Hanif and you aside :) , I think the top ten would look a little different if we promoted driving skill as opposed to driver dedication.


Haha - just for you, I recalculated my score taking my LOWEST 6 scores. I still managed to stay out on top :) Teehee :)

[Dave L]

The GTA is pretty much in the centre of southern ontario. If you are on the extreme east or west of the province I think it would be only logical to expect that you would be driving more. The only possible solution to the mileage debate would be to move the series North, Perhaps Sault Ste Marie, Sudbury, Kapuskasing, Bancroft and Wawa would be suitable sites. this way everyone would be screwed :)

[TOYSRUS]

Haha - just for you, I recalculated my score taking my LOWEST 6 scores. I still managed to stay out on top :) Teehee :)

Hanif you BASTARD!! I suppose thats what I get for bringing a knife to gunfight (sigh*)

Next year however I am bringing an even bigger knife....I think I'll name it the "HANIF SLAYER"........yeah, I like the sounds of that.....
:D :D

[h-bomb]

Hanif you BASTARD!! I suppose thats what I get for bringing a knife to gunfight (sigh*)

Next year however I am bringing an even bigger knife....I think I'll name it the "HANIF SLAYER"........yeah, I like the sounds of that.....
:D :D

Assuming we're in the same class, perhaps we should swap co-drives to compare driving versus equipment...

[Pete@Marcor]

ps...were your mileage totals one way or round trip??

Those were one way, so double it up for round trip, actual mileage.

As for the comment that the clubs do not make any money, I surely hope that they do not lose much. This is part of the reason that the Region went to charging a single fee for the levies. The clubs were aware of how much everything was going to cost, so they were free to promote as they saw fit, and charge appropriately.

There are some clubs that organize a Regional that do not have a club series. So, either they are organizing a regional to promote their club, or to subsidize the rest of their events.

Regardless, it would appear that the general opinion is to have less events. I like this, but I am strongly against a double header weekend, as not only is it a larger expense, it means more time away from home. Most of us have significant others that allow us the freedom to do these events. Why annoy them further?

And I know exactly what you mean about brining a knife to the gunfight, Bill. My car was far from the optimum car in class. It was pretty close to being prepped for the class, but I think that another car would have offer more speed. Your occasional knife was pretty sharp, btw.

[TOYSRUS]

Assuming we're in the same class, perhaps we should swap co-drives to compare driving versus equipment...


I thought you'd NEVER ask!! I am all over that!!!:)

[TOYSRUS]

[QUOTE=Pete@Marcor;86517
And I know exactly what you mean about brining a knife to the gunfight, Bill. My car was far from the optimum car in class. It was pretty close to being prepped for the class, but I think that another car would have offer more speed. Your occasional knife was pretty sharp, btw.[/QUOTE]


Why thank you sir, I was able to sample some of the best equipment at our last event though.....I took the new Elise for a fun run and was blown away at its performance...this sunday I get the oppotunity to co-drive a BSP S2000 in Ottawa - WOOHOOOOO!!!

[yellowhotshoe]

So its been suggested that the 'Regionals' are there to crown the best of the best in Ontario (newbie or veteran). The Regional series is made up of events put on by the various clubs across the province.

OK, wild idea: why not have the Top 10 from each club run at a weekend event near the end of the season (Septemberish?). This once a year event could be rotated through the 3 regions (East, GTA & West)

Some of the upsides IMO:

1. reduced number of events for the Regionals
2. reduced travel miles over the summer
3. it should be easy to plan one weekend where there are no club events to conflict with. Also, it should be easier from a personal point of view to schedule one weekend.
4. THE best from each club will be represented, opening up another competition: Top Club in Ontario?
5. prizing for the event could be greater. The same sponsorshipp $$ for the season could be applied to the single event.
6. the championship wouldn't go to the 'most dedicated' competitor who goes to the most events
7. it could also have an element of the shootout (each class winner could square off in a shootout of 3 runs in the same car at the end of the weekend to determine the overall champ?)
8. Reduced personal racing budget for entry fees, tires etc.

Just my 2 cents. I REALLY enjoyed the Nationals event this year and could envision this format as a mega-regional once per year.

[Pete@Marcor]

OK, wild idea: why not have the Top 10 from each club run at a weekend event near the end of the season (Septemberish?). This once a year event could be rotated through the 3 regions (East, GTA & West)

Some of the upsides IMO:

1. reduced number of events for the Regionals
2. reduced travel miles over the summer
3. it should be easy to plan one weekend where there are no club events to conflict with. Also, it should be easier from a personal point of view to schedule one weekend.
4. THE best from each club will be represented, opening up another competition: Top Club in Ontario?
5. prizing for the event could be greater. The same sponsorshipp $$ for the season could be applied to the single event.
6. the championship wouldn't go to the 'most dedicated' competitor who goes to the most events
7. it could also have an element of the shootout (each class winner could square off in a shootout of 3 runs in the same car at the end of the weekend to determine the overall champ?)
8. Reduced personal racing budget for entry fees, tires etc.

Just my 2 cents. I REALLY enjoyed the Nationals event this year and could envision this format as a mega-regional once per year.

I run the Regionals because I want the competition. I see club events as one of two ways - A fun event where you don't need to be too involved or serious about it, or a test and tune, to get one ready for the bigger events. Except for the HADA series, I am not too interested in a club series. The only reason I do the HADA series is because I am a member of that clubs BoD, and have committed to helping it out.

How would you choose the top guys from each club? The guys that run the club series (so may not be that club's members), which may be run under different rules than the Regionals?

We have had team competitions in the past. It would be fairly easy to include a club championship. (Look for HADA or SPDA to rule!)

Why are we trying to reduce the number of events below say 4-6? The whole point of a championship is that it is not supposed to be easy to win.

I suppose that this thread is here to open up the discussion lines. But, I don't see the general idea of the Regionals changing from what we have right now. The concept of a shootout to determine a winner is ok, but the problem with one event in those competitors' cars is that the course will not necessarily be representative of our events. It might favour a particular kind of car or class. Determining it by all of the top people in another car is not fair to the competitor who is not used to the shootout vehicle.

[Slowpoke]

I'm married, and I kinda like double-header weekends. It seems to save me MORE time. Focus on events one weekend, give a complete weekend to the wife another week. Load the car up once for SoloSprint events, etc.

Also it's a little more social when you're all staying away from home in the same hotel/camping out.

I could see where someone coaches a little league team that they wouldn't appreciate double-headers as much as I do, though.

I understand the hotel expense. I have been using hotel points for most nights, camping if there's decent showers (basically only Mosport.) We had four guys in one hotel room for the Bracebridge event. (Thankfully everyone blamed someone else for my snoring.)

Edit: I would like to avoid the team championship setup like we have in SoloSprint; where it's basically a "who has the most drivers showing up" contest. I think max five drivers from each club count towards the club championship.