View Full Version : coming after the V8's he he he he
so v8 weasels (dr dave)...coming after you now...... just did a little "pre" new fuel system dyno tuning...to dyno my new coffee can 3 inch exhaust pipe....and i made some very nice power gains....
gained 23rwhp..and 36ftlbs torque at 12psi of boost..with my ricy 3 inch exhaust with 4 inch tip :)
and if anyone was wondering why my bumper was black..well i confirmed what i already knew..i was running rich....here are some rpm's and AF ratios...
A/F RATIO RPM...
11.45 ...... 3100
10.05 ..... 4100
9.11 ..... 5100
8.15 ..... 5900
so once i clean up this rich situation watch out flaming chickens and rustangs.....
the V8 vs 4 banger import fight is on again....
so where is dr dave..or shamen?
where are you ....lets get some life back in this board :)
alexb
11-01-2002, 03:38 PM
Dear Adam.
Perhaps you should try and finish your quest to beat 1.8 ltr Hondas before threatening the 5.ltr. crowd.
Some down home Weasel advise.:)
Shaman
11-01-2002, 04:07 PM
Best beat the Hondas first. :)
My expected dyno plot this year: 502rwhp/513rwtq. And I won't need any of that stinky high octane stuff to get it. See, I picked up around 20rwhp/30rwtq this year too. :D
bahh 1.8l....
this was just the testing year for the turbo 2.4l nissan...next year will be the racing year :)
all the bugs are now worked out (or burned out) :)
yeah...but your in a flaming chicken..its heavy...
i think if i can lay down a nice 350rwhp-390rwhp....the flaming chicken would be in trouble :)
Originally posted by Shaman
Best beat the Hondas first. :)
My expected dyno plot this year: 502rwhp/513rwtq. And I won't need any of that stinky high octane stuff to get it. See, I picked up around 20rwhp/30rwtq this year too. :D
John Hannaford
11-01-2002, 04:37 PM
My new N/A 302 engine only puts out a puny 300 ft-lbs and 300 hp at the rear wheels. I'm over 6 lbs/hp, for crying out loud! I may have to take up knitting while waiting between shifts. What have you being doing with all that extra time Adam?
Shaman
11-01-2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
yeah...but your in a flaming chicken..its heavy...
i think if i can lay down a nice 350rwhp-390rwhp....the flaming chicken would be in trouble :)
Ah, but I can listen to my CD stack whilst toasting your ass off the line. :D
NOSfly
11-01-2002, 08:28 PM
2.4?Isn't that a truck motor?Does it have a hitch on it?I'm looking for a tow vehicle.
thats ok.... 300rwhp and 300ftlbs from a 302 won't be enough to keep me at bay :)
in an untuned state running low boost i just pulled a 261rwhp and 297ftlbs.... from a 142ci motor..........just wait...just wait...when 14psi coming rolling along..and proper AF ratio....and 400rwhp..and 400ftlbs comes knocking........thats when you will see the flaming chickens run for cover.. :) (maybe from engine parts flying :) )
Originally posted by John Hannaford
My new N/A 302 engine only puts out a puny 300 ft-lbs and 300 hp at the rear wheels. I'm over 6 lbs/hp, for crying out loud! I may have to take up knitting while waiting between shifts. What have you being doing with all that extra time Adam?
yep...its a hillbilly stump pulling single cam truck motor..yeehaaaaa..
thats already putting out more hp per litre than most of the 200k+ exotics
and spare motors cost me $150 ....ha ha ha (ok i just picked up a motor and tranny for $150 so it was a better deal)
Originally posted by NOSfly
2.4?Isn't that a truck motor?Does it have a hitch on it?I'm looking for a tow vehicle.
soon very soon.... unless you start dropping some serious weight from the flaming chicken (plus actually get it running)... there is no way that heavy beast will be able to keep up.....once i get into the 400ftlbs and 400rwhp range..the thing will be running in the 10's easy (and will be able to handle)........slowly....but surely...the v8's will fall one....by ...one..new ones...old ones....big blocks...small blocks....... :)
small ...nimble...and with power...very hard to beat.....that is the way of the import ..... :)
dr..dave..calling dr..dave.....
Originally posted by Shaman
Ah, but I can listen to my CD stack whilst toasting your ass off the line. :D
Hahaha 1.8 yeah right!
Adam how bout try beating a 1.6 Lt D-series (Non V-tec) Civic! :D
Damn you need rain tyres... Yo! ;)
NOSfly
11-01-2002, 10:39 PM
I guess an untuned state is probably the best you can hope for.400 hp?how many of those $150 motors do you have to string together to make that?
just 1 motor...just 1.....
Shaman
11-02-2002, 12:19 AM
I'm OK with the CD stack and the 93/94 octane fuel. I don't feel the need to drive a tin can that needs rocket fuel to jump from one puddle to the next. ;)
Dave Barker
11-03-2002, 01:45 PM
Adam , I will have to make sure you run your car in the morning warmup at each event . Then you will likely blow your engine and need to wait to the next event to get the next $150 engine installed while I cruise to a reliable victory . ( Did I just jinx myself ??!!)
John Hannaford
11-04-2002, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by ADAM
thats ok.... 300rwhp and 300ftlbs from a 302 won't be enough to keep me at bay :)
I guess I'll have to fall back on weighing a lot less (2100 lbs without the blower gear) and having a much bigger friction circle (did I mention the 12" slicks, A.D. shocks and 16 lb racing rims?).
Kind of ironic, ain't it - V8 guy relying on less weight and better handling?
And the truly horrible news is that unless you get well under 2500 lbs, I'll still have you on lbs/hp. Without even thinking about that 392 c.i., 500 hp drop-in toy that's evolving in the garage.
Welcome to the game. Let the real spending begin! :D
Seriously though, I think you'd be a hell of a threat with a RELIABLE 250-300 hp and a chassis/tire combination that could actually make use of it. 400 hp seems a little much for that chassis and tires, even with the new stuff.
Shaman
11-04-2002, 09:56 PM
I got your answer right here, John. :)
http://ebay2.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_5388763316ec57511ec4c32c35e4885a/i-1_B_L.JPG
John Hannaford
11-05-2002, 09:04 AM
Hmmm, the guy who built it seems to have installed the distributor on the wrong end.
Except for that, WOW! Forget about being able to handle the re-builds, I don't think I could afford the tire budget!
Shaman
11-05-2002, 06:44 PM
850hp crank or so on pump gas would be a little much for Solo-1, IMHO. :)
... look at the dinky intercooler..they picked for that motor...figures...some chevy designer probably spec'd the parts out.......a 850hp motor would heat soak that intercooler..very quickly...then...BOOM... no more chevy motor to worry about :)
plus wastegate is to small for that power level......IMO...and BOV is external plumbed......gues they are using a MAP system...
he he..maybe with the new rules we will be going against each other :)
Originally posted by John Hannaford
I guess I'll have to fall back on weighing a lot less (2100 lbs without the blower gear) and having a much bigger friction circle (did I mention the 12" slicks, A.D. shocks and 16 lb racing rims?).
Kind of ironic, ain't it - V8 guy relying on less weight and better handling?
And the truly horrible news is that unless you get well under 2500 lbs, I'll still have you on lbs/hp. Without even thinking about that 392 c.i., 500 hp drop-in toy that's evolving in the garage.
Welcome to the game. Let the real spending begin! :D
Seriously though, I think you'd be a hell of a threat with a RELIABLE 250-300 hp and a chassis/tire combination that could actually make use of it. 400 hp seems a little much for that chassis and tires, even with the new stuff.
dr dave.... all the bugs have been worked out...next year its racing time .... :)
Originally posted by Dave Barker
Adam , I will have to make sure you run your car in the morning warmup at each event . Then you will likely blow your engine and need to wait to the next event to get the next $150 engine installed while I cruise to a reliable victory . ( Did I just jinx myself ??!!)
Shaman
11-05-2002, 10:05 PM
Heh. What adam doesn't know is you only need about 11PSI to make 850hp. And, that turbo flows so much (T76) that it's not going to be an issue with heat... or that the intercooler is good for 1,100hp... or that's it's a MAF system... or that that BOV is the biggest HKS BOV there is... but on that particular stock-engine 6PSI/530rwhp setup, the BOV never gets used, it's just for safety. :)
miataboi
11-06-2002, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by Shaman
Heh. What adam doesn't know is you only need about 11PSI to make 850hp. And, that turbo flows so much (T76) that it's not going to be an issue with heat... or that the intercooler is good for 1,100hp... or that's it's a MAF system... or that that BOV is the biggest HKS BOV there is... but on that particular stock-engine 6PSI/530rwhp setup, the BOV never gets used, it's just for safety. :)
The blowoff valve doesn't get used if you never lift!!!! :D :D
John Hannaford
11-06-2002, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by ADAM
dr dave.... all the bugs have been worked out...next year its racing time .... :)
I thought that kind of optimism was only found in software developers!
hmmm..... a t76 ehh..thats a big boy....kinda overkill for this application...at that boost level 11psi... 1.74 pressure ratio....that big turbo is wasted...and as such ..has a long spool up time...still a poor design IMO..... from the compressor map...this turbo is suited for sustained high pressure...high volume applications..maybe for a large diesel motor..generator?..bulldozer? tractor trailer? it would be a pig to spool up.... AND YOU WOULD NEED A BOV cause once that puppy got spinning you need to vent..otherwise in very short order its gonna have big problems....
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/comp_maps/t76.html
Originally posted by Shaman
Heh. What adam doesn't know is you only need about 11PSI to make 850hp. And, that turbo flows so much (T76) that it's not going to be an issue with heat... or that the intercooler is good for 1,100hp... or that's it's a MAF system... or that that BOV is the biggest HKS BOV there is... but on that particular stock-engine 6PSI/530rwhp setup, the BOV never gets used, it's just for safety. :)
Shaman
11-06-2002, 07:18 PM
Nope. :)
This isn't a little wheezer motor, this is a big, grown-up 5.7L motor with heads that flow 265cfm stock. While it's 6PSI at the manifold, there is a LOT of flow there. The turbo supports 1,000hp or so easy if you want it, but the reason it's good for 620hp applications like this one is that you can get nice cool flow without much risk of detonation.
Chris P
11-06-2002, 07:36 PM
Man, you guys have nothing!!!! 1000hp........thats childs play
have a look at whats going in the CRX next season............
http://home.triad.rr.com/d9/rt96c_bearings.jpg
http://home.triad.rr.com/d9/rt96c_crank1.jpg
http://home.triad.rr.com/d9/rt96c_cyldeck.jpg
and yes, the little korean doods come with it :D
Shaman
11-06-2002, 08:11 PM
That'll have some torque.
guess gearing won't be an issue....go with a nice tall single speed :)
i think you will have enough torque there
:)
John Hannaford
11-07-2002, 11:35 AM
Do you think John Nelson will go for the lighthouse at the end of the Fabi straight?
so your 5.7 l v8 ....considering if it has a max rpm of 6000, and is boosted to 11psi...
sill be sucking in 814cfm at 11psi and 6000rpm....
air is approx .0765 lbs/cf...so we can see how the motor plots on the compressor map..thats 62lbs of air per min used at WOT and max rpm...so at that low boost level the turbo will be working somewhere in the 75-70% region of efficiency...at WOT...so a crappy intercooler will not help the situation here....
http://www.turboneticsinc.com/comp_maps/t76.html
so we also know it takes 1.5-1.6cfm per hp...so...thats only approx 542rwhp in around that area to the wheels....increased compression ratio...and better air density (ie large intercooler) will increase this....
so..your wonder motor is not that bad ass :)
now......if we were to say up the boost a bit...and increase the max RPM...and..put a huge intercooler on that engine...then we could make some serious power.....i was not sure what a 5.7 l could rev too to i used 6000rpm...
Shaman
11-07-2002, 07:52 PM
Very good, that's almost exactly what it puts out (plus 640tq). However, it's a completely stock motor, cutoff at 6150 RPM.
A modified motor with a forged bottom end, ported heads, larger valves, larger displacement, 80mm throttle body, larger intercooler, larger turbo, has been built to crank out 730rwhp through an automatic transmission on 93 octane fuel. That's still an "early stage" build, since this particular turbo kit just got released in September.
I think you're underestimating the intercooler, personally. It's rated the same as the turbo. But realistically the stock internals of the motor don't WANT any more power. Even at the 540rwhp level, I'd be worried about long term engine reliability. With forged internals, no sweat.
I'd be more worried about that turbo cracking the thin walled piping they're using. There's a stay in the production unit for the turbo, but I'd prefer to see a beefier method of keeping the turbo from moving around any. They claim no problem, but I'd be looking at building a 730rwhp+ application with my built motor, obviously.
This is an enthusiast's kit, not a racing kit. If you want to make 1,200hp with a studded block or something, then you'd probably want to build your own with your own custom intercooler. But IMHO, the real question is "how much is too much"? Guys are running high nines with some weight reduction and naturally aspirated motors almost identical to what I'm running in Solo 1 (which beg the question: when are you going to lighten it, steve?)
Shaman
11-08-2002, 12:05 AM
http://www.ls1motorsports.com/Single_Turbo.htm
And the motor I fear Eric will end up with someday... :)
http://w1.601.telia.com/~u60113742/my_vette/DSC01756s.JPG
yeah with a big silly air to water intercooler ......won't work well for solo 1.....ping...ping...boom
you v8 guys.....you still don't get how to build a turbo motor....(actually that looks like a even more big useless supercharger) leave it to v8 guys to even use superchargers...ha ha ha...get with the 2000's guys...superchargers are useless!!!
you better hope R34's never get into solo 1...or the corvettes are going to have to run for cover... (and flaming chickens)
:)
Originally posted by Shaman
http://www.ls1motorsports.com/Single_Turbo.htm
And the motor I fear Eric will end up with someday... :)
http://w1.601.telia.com/~u60113742/my_vette/DSC01756s.JPG
Shaman
11-08-2002, 03:26 PM
Yeah, I must seem very worried. :)
Superchargers work really well in V8 applications, BTW. Really, really well. But since I've been challenged:
http://www.montygwilliams.com/engine_installed.jpg
1200hp, 1000tq on 93 octane fuel. Turns 180mph traps on VP110 on street tires.
sorry ...this is power...
http://www.autospeed.com/A_1560/page1.html
http://www.autospeed.com/site/autospeed/images/1560_2lo.jpg
over 300hp per litre!!!!...that would make 1710 hp from your 5.7 l motor ...ha ha ha ha....
Originally posted by Shaman
Yeah, I must seem very worried. :)
Superchargers work really well in V8 applications, BTW. Really, really well. But since I've been challenged:
http://www.montygwilliams.com/engine_installed.jpg
1200hp, 1000tq on 93 octane fuel. Turns 180mph traps on VP110 on street tires.
Shaman
11-08-2002, 03:48 PM
HP/L is completely irrelevant. HP/LB, that's relevant. But that's not a 5.7L motor either, it's a 7L motor.
Of course, we're getting ridiculous. Even at "low boost", that twin turbo merlin block would twist a light, drivable road race car into a pretzel. Hell, it'd probably twist my car into a pretzel given time. Not to mention the unmanagable task of trying to drive a 1200hp/1000tq car around Fabi.
so its a 7l motor putting out 1200hp...whilst the little 3.1 litre nissan motor is putting out 937hp....thats pretty sad...actually very sad....
plus look at the weight savings.....
Shaman
11-08-2002, 04:21 PM
On 93 octane? I don't think so... :)
Did I mention it makes 2100hp on 110 octane? More than enough to make up for a few hundred pounds, that's for sure.
Doesn't matter, as I said, HP/L is irrelevant, especially when you're boosting 4 atmospheres into the thing. :D
NOSfly
11-09-2002, 05:19 PM
22lbs boost,5 injectors,front mount Intercooler,7500rpm.1 litre,and 3 cylinders of turbo insanity in a 1500 lb package!I can hear the sound of you guys running scared already.
Chris P
11-09-2002, 05:24 PM
oh no.......its the 22.6 point firefly!!! :D
NOSfly
11-09-2002, 08:08 PM
22.6 point Firefly?Whats that mean?I assume(naturally)its a compliment.
MikeS
11-10-2002, 12:11 PM
Hey ChrisP, looks like your dream has become a reality!
Chris P
11-11-2002, 06:40 PM
NOSfly don't worry about it. An inside joke. :cool:
NOSfly
11-11-2002, 09:09 PM
Hey,I want to be inside too.
Chris P
11-12-2002, 02:47 AM
well, i could but it would waste a hour of your life and then i would have to kill you. :)
It has something to do with SOLO 1 proposed classification............. :confused:
NOSfly
11-12-2002, 09:15 PM
Ya,don't bother.I may not have that much time left anyway.
the funny thing is...... i wanted to get a firefly as a project car......
bore it out....forged rods ..pistons...ect....
big turbo...big intercooler.....race head....i am sure we could get 200rwhp out of it.....
strip it out and voila....you have a very very fast little car...
NOSfly
11-18-2002, 06:19 PM
200rwhp?So it was going to be rwd?Seriously,this car really goes in the autox.I put nitrous in my 87 car over the wkend.Its pretty insane.My first interest was a Suzuki Swift GTi bit i found one of these first.Next thing you know I have 5 of them and I'm doing all sorts of sick things to them.Its lots of fun,I get 50mpg(I'm a commuter)and total investment,<$3000.
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