Sport Utes , Grrrr!!!!

[Dave Barker]

Was going into TO from Whitby last Saturday night to a YES concert at Massey Hall ( YES are the kings of dinosaur symphonic rock for you youngin's and have more music in 1 minute of song than a whole Rap or Hip Hop album). As a passenger I got to notice the vehicles being picked up by tow trucks , 1 Sport Ute in the ditch near Ajax and 2 in Scarberia with serious front end damage and absolutely no rear damage . Obviously these idiots with 4 wheel drive thought their increased traction going forward meant better traction braking . I guess they aren't aware that ALL vehicles have 4 wheel brakes and the vast majority can stop faster than a Stupid Useless Vehicle. Certainly the drivers who were rear ended by these overconfident idiots have every right to sue them to the hilt . I hope the "Whiplash " injury claims from people who are rear ended by SUVs bankrupt the insurance companies or ensure than insuring these monsters is prohibitively expensive. BTW did I mention I do NOT have a trailer queen ?

[RedRabbit Racer]

At least as frustrating was the crowd that felt it was unsafe to drive more than 20 kph travelling in packs along 3 lane expressways. I don't understand why they didn't get off the roads and stay home if conditions were so dangerous.

[John Hannaford]

Yeah! Damn useless over-size under-used pretentious Yuppie status mobiles! Ought to ban 'em outright. And anyone who doesn't use his racecar for daily transport ain't no real man neither!

Heh, buddy! Wait! What do you mean "I can tow myself back to the pits?!"

[Rob McAuley]

...and what's with all these old folks touring again after 10 years?

We took the kids to see Roxy Music last year, Jethro Tull last summer, and we're going to Peter Gabriel in 2 weeks!

Any word on an Emerson Lake & Palmer tour?

[John Hannaford]

They only make Canadian tour stops to take advantage of the cheaper geriatric prescription meds.

[Chris P]

not a SUV but............


http://www.caranddriver.com/image_cache/DATA/Caranddriver/images/autoshow/2002_sema/0211_sema_02.jpg

http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/02images/02sema/apc_dodge_grand_caravan.jpg


well, not sure want my point is, its a riced up minivan, sooo yeah, is anybody else dazed and confused or do you hear it saying....."Race ME, Race ME" ? Sick bastard. Get people racing that van.......................next thing you know people will be racing those Nissan 240sx thingys. :rolleyes:

[John Hannaford]

For the mom with a whole lot of soccer games on the same day.

[soloZ]

Damn that would be really cool if it had a HEMI or Viper V10 in there driving the rear wheels of course.:)

[John Hannaford]

Hmmm....Hennesey could stuff a supercharged Viper V10 in my Durango, slam it, add yard wide tires and Le Mans stripes. Dave B.'s ultimate nightmare. A tailgating SUV he can't shake!

[GR8 Ride]

Originally posted by Rob McAuley
...and what's with all these old folks touring again after 10 years?

We took the kids to see Roxy Music last year, Jethro Tull last summer, and we're going to Peter Gabriel in 2 weeks!

Any word on an Emerson Lake & Palmer tour?

Great, so we could see Carl Palmer pass out again? Isn't he still with Asia, or are they even still around?

Darn, and I meant to get YES tickets....forgot all about that one. Must be age kicking in....


Pat

[alexb]

Rob,you are one cool dad.

I would be up for a ELP concert.

[Dave Barker]

YES was very good. Rick Wakeman and John Anderson were right on compared to ( gulp!) 30 years ago . Steve Howe played great too but looks about 60 years older!

John H is right . we don't need to ban SUVs , just SUV drivers. Have you ever noticed that most people who drive true tow vehicles , i.e. pickups, usually don't drive like a** holes.

I am amazed that people spend as much as they do on SUVs . Years ago people would bragg about cubic inches, HP , 0-60 times or 1/4 mile times. Now it seem so called enthusiasts can bragg about weight , gas consumption or the ability to crush hondas.
" My SUV has 345 hp and has a 150 L gas tank"

" So what , mine weighs 5300 lb and costs way more than yours !"

" Yeah well mine can wipe out 3 cars at a single intersection WITHOUT rolling over " ( the coup de gras)

[ADAM]

what was that... crushing hondas ....... :)

he he.. my old 4700lb trooper was good for that.... ohh yeah... 80l gas tank...and 4700lbs of japanese steel running down the road.....ohhh the gas being sucked up :)

[John Hannaford]

I disagree Dave. The ***hole percentage seems pretty constant across makes, types and regions. We just tend to notice those that are more recently prominent or offensive to our particular world view. That's the fundamental problem with anecdote, isn't it?

I admit that I do take the opportunity to point out to every Cadillac Escalade owner I meet that it is the intended vehicle of the majority of recent major sport draft picks. If they get the put down it's just funny, if they take it as a compliment - it's hilarious!

[Jay]

Funny how a person's vehicle selection often says a lot about them!

That and Shoes. The ladies are ALL about a man's shoes. I wonder what ladies of the bare footed tribes look for? Hehehe :D

Here is an article that I found interesting titled "Road Hogs":

Cheers

Jay


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Road hogs

>>
>> A monstrous breed of automobile stalks the highways of LA, but
>> one activist is determined to make it extinct, writes Duncan
>> Campbell
>>
>> Duncan Campbell
>> Guardian Unlimited
>>
>> Tuesday April 16, 2002
>>
>>
>> One of the great banes of life in California is the Sport Utility
>> Vehicle, the SUV, the enormous four-wheel-drive cars that are
>> also becoming increasingly popular in Britain and elsewhere in
>> Europe. They take up an enormous amount of space on the road.
>> They clog up parking places. They use an enormous amount of
>> petrol and do an enormous amount of damage to the environment.
>>
>> Because they are marketed as a safe family car - that is, safe,
>> as in killing other people in a crash rather than yourself -
>> their popularity has grown. Most car manufacturers now look to
>> them as a big moneymaker. Sometimes it seems as though every
>> freeway is populated entirely by people in SUVs talking into
>> their cellphones.
>>
>> There has been some opposition. Websites devoted to attacking the
>> SUV have been set up. Last year, Earth Liberation activists in
>> Eugene, Oregon set fire to a dealership there and destroyed $1m
>> (about £700,000) worth of SUVs. But now a more subtle approach
>> has been initiated with dramatic results.
>>
>> Over recent months, SUV drivers in Los Angeles have found a small
>> printed card stuck on their windscreens. It reads thus:
>> "Road-hogging, gas-guzzling, air-fouling vulgarian! Clearly you
>> have an extremely small penis or you wouldn't drive such a
>> monstrosity. For the adequately endowed, there are hybrids or
>> electrics. 310 798 1817."
>>
>> If you dial the number, a voice says: "Piggy, piggy, piggy. If
>> you can afford one of those huge new SUVs you can afford
>> something that doesn't suck all the air out of the planet and
>> spit it back black ... It's really creepy that you drive that
>> thing and I just wanted to let you know."
>>
>> The author of the note and the owner of the telephone number
>> turns out to be one Amy Alkon, a journalist who writes a
>> syndicated advice column (advicegoddess.com, which shows Ms Alkon
>> kissing a frog). Fed up with all the SUVs in our streets, Alkon
>> wanted to promote the idea that they were deeply uncool. Last
>> week, she published the results of her wheeze in LA's New Times.
>>
>> Since she had given the number of her voice mail (see above - and
>> she said she is happy to have it published), she has had hundreds
>> and hundreds of calls. Some are just what you might expect from a
>> typical SUV driver: "Hello, psycho! ... You're a freak ... Shove
>> all those cute little cards up your ass ... I will file a police
>> report against you ... I'm gonna go to the police department
>> right now." But there have also been some sweet, contrite
>> messages from people who say that they have decided to give up
>> their SUVs.
>>
>> "I had one call from someone who said: 'You're right - I'm
>> getting rid of my big thing'," said Ms Alkon. But she has also
>> had one from a man who told her that if he caught her "he would
>> rape me - even if I was ugly." But she had no regrets.
>>
>> "It's been so much fun," said Ms Alkon, who comes originally from
>> the suburbs of Detroit and is 38 - "I'm the only woman in Los
>> Angeles who will tell you her age." She said that she checked her
>> voice mail 20 times a day and there were always around five
>> responses. Many were from people who wanted copies of the card so
>> that they could do the same thing themselves. Similar campaigns
>> are now starting elsewhere.
>>
>> Ms Alkon, who used to work for the Daily News in New York, said
>> that she hoped to spread the idea internationally that it was
>> terminally uncool to drive an SUV in the same way that the notion
>> that it was terminally cool for teenagers to wear baggy pants
>> somehow spread across the planet. "I want people to think when
>> they see someone in an SUV - 'What a jerk!'"
>>
>> Who knows, a combination of the cards and a world oil shortage
>> could see the roads liberated by the end of the year. (Just for
>> the record, the Guardian company car in LA is a modest '99 Toyota
>> Corolla.)

[Avi Koifman]

Dave: Did they play "Close to the Edge"? If so, in its entirety? I grew up listening to YES, my older brother had every album, and he wore the grooves off that one. A classic.

Rob: Where's Gabriel playing, and when? I wouldn't mind checking out that show. How did you like Jethro Tull? I've been to 2 of their concerts, and found them to be absolutely incredible. A very unique sound.

<rant>
As for SUV's (Stupid Useless Vehicles - I like that :)), IMHO, anything taller than a Subaru Forrester should be permanently restricted to the right hand lane! :p

More importantly, it's time to put an end to drivers on cell phones. They're definitely the biggest problem on our roads today. :mad:
</rant>

[ADAM]

what other type of vehicle can you ....

sit in luxury...haul all your camping and fishing stuff.. or car parts..or tires..or whatever

or haul your race car...and racing stuff...

or go out in almost any weather..and go on all the back roads..or thru almost any terrain...

and be safe..if you hit somebody.... i got into an accident in my youth...some guys in a camero were parked on the top a blind hill drinking...me and a buddy came over the hill..and hit them dead on at 100kph....threw the camero 100ft into a ditch....camero was a write off... we drove the "jimmy" home....

plus you get such a nice view of the road...

i would never go back to a car for everyday driving....ok i might get a "fun" street car....but for everday driving... i love my SUV

so it sucks a bit more gas....you should hound people in honda civics that drive more than me...cause overall they use more fuel up...depends on how you look at things... am i more evil driving 24km to and from work everyday...or the honda civic that drives 100km....

all good questions.....

or can any of us comment..with our "race cars" like my nissan that get 10mpg....

though i think hydrogen cars are the way to go in the fuure....

[John Hannaford]

You can have my cell phone when you pry it from my cold dead hands!

Remember: SUVs don't kill people. People kill people.

If you make SUVs illegal, only criminals will have cell phones in SUVs.

Try getting a reservation at Hy's when that happens!

[Bubblecar]

Originally posted by Avi Koifman
IMHO, anything taller than a Subaru Forrester should be permanently restricted to the right hand lane! :p


Wait a flippin minute - that would include my pick-up truck.:eek:

My Duramax with 320 HP and 525 ft lbs of torque will blow your funny looking little japanese car into the right hand lane okay ( the far right hand lane - the ditch!):D

You see - pickup trucks are really SUV's in disguise - while you bitch and complain about the yuppies - we go flying by looking like your local farmer or friendly mechanic when in truth most of us are stockbrokers and bankers who love wasting gas.;)

Nick

[ADAM]

hey nick...i saw on magnus site...that you have a new custom aluminum intake manifold.... are they only for DSM cars?

did it make a difference?

[Bubblecar]

Truth be known - it's alot prettier than the sheet metal one used previously - but have not had a chance to verify any performance gains as far as HP/Torque at the Dyno.

And while this product is just for Talons, Marco does custom make them up for various brands.

Nick

[Dave Barker]

AVi . Close to the Edge in its entirety as well as a lot of Fragile but no Tales from Topographic Oceans. Standing ovation brought the classis " Starship Trooper"

John , I don't agree exactly . There may be a#$holes driving all different types of vehicles but my car ( hell even my minivan ) likely has better brakes than any SUV which means I end up getting rear ended given the same driver error . Those aggresive little buggers in hotted up corollas and lowered accords still likely have good brakes and are not as likely to hit me ,( and if they did , no where near as likely to do as much damage) .

Fortunately evolution seems to have a way of getting rid of SUV drivers or so called " culling the herd" Twice last year I had to drive to Kingston during slippery conditions. The section between Coburg and Trenton was particularly slippery with lots of vehicles off the road: minivans , civics, tractor trailers etc but both times the only vehicles on their roofs were SUVs . Maybe it should stand for " Single accident Upside down Vehicle "

[Rob McAuley]

Close to the Edge in its entirety as well as a lot of Fragile but no Tales from Topographic Oceans. Standing ovation brought the classis " Starship Trooper"

Amazing! My 2 favourite albums, and TOTO was my first Yes album - but I couldn't imaging too much of it in concert.

Peter Gabriel is on at the ACC on Monday Dec 2. Looks like half the show will be from his new album, and lots of good effects.


...and I'd take a sport ute if someone bought me an enclosed trailer. Sue refuses to drive a tow vehicle. She says we'll have to buy another bimmer if turn my car into a dedicated track car.

[GR8 Ride]

Well, I'll have to join in with the "you can have my pickup truck when you pry it from my cold, dead, fingers" routine as well.

It's both my daily driver (parked underground in downtown TO no less...), AND my tow vehicle. While I'd like to delegate it to tow duties only, with the tech crash still on-going, the additional money for a fourth car in the household isn't a major concern.

I agree that the single biggest thing most drivers on the road could use today is more true, driver training. The unfortunate truth is that 98% (perhaps higher....) of the drivers on the road today took basic driver training at the most, and figure that 20+ years of driving on city streets makes them excellent drivers.

While SUVs may be responsible for burning additional fossil fuels, in reality, vehicles run so much cleaner and more efficiently than they did 20 years ago, it's hard to make a solid comparison. I'd bet the average SUV of today burns far less gas and produces far less harmful emissions than the station-wagon of the 70s.

Also, if we're going to hassle SUV owners, perhaps it would be prudent to look into the current HP wars going on between various manufacturers. The new Audi with 450 HP, the rumoured next generation M5 from BMW with 500 HP, the new AMG/MB with nearly 500 HP as well.

Also, the Z06, up to 405 HP, the Viper with 500 HP, the Mustang Cobra with 390 HP.

And lest we think it's limited to sports cars and high end cars only, the Nissan Altima has 240 HP, with the new Maxima at 255 HP. More HP, more fuel burned....no way around that one.

As an enthusiast, I enjoy it, and I appreciate it. However, without some driver training for that vast majority of city drivers, it could make for some interesting times on city streets. I'll feel much safer in my 5200lb pickup truck...


Pat

[Shaman]

My truck is my daily driver too.

I hate it. It's so boring.

So I'm still riding my motorcycle to work every day that it isn't snowing or a risk of black ice. Rode it for an hour today.

I hate trucks. I have one out of necessity only. So you can't bitch at me, Dave. :)

[Dave Barker]

Steve , I have no problem with using a vehicle for its intended purpose i.e. towing with a pickup or actually "Sport Ute ing with an SUV ( as opposed to Stupid Useless ing or Suspended Upsidedown ing ). My problem was that various people on this past slippery Saturday were obviously overestimating their SUV 's abilities ( and/or their own driving abilities) such that our trip to TO was held up while 3 separate SUVs had to be towed away , 2 being involved in rear ending someone and one just driving off the road. Even though the "wonderous " 4 wheel drive vehicles are supposed to be great in bad conditions , I didn't see a single car being towed. I agree that the problem with people driving in such an overconfident way that they end up harming themselves is more likely to be a problem with the drivers and not the vehicles themselves after all people die in Camaros and Mustangs too but I do find the irony of driving a vehicle that is supposedlly safer than most actually led to more accidents in my tiny survey. ( And if I had been one of the people rear ended by one of them I would have been REAL pissed off)

[Bubblecar]

Dave,

Seriously though - you are absolutely right.

Having driven 4wd and awd for several winters - one of my first discoveries was that forward traction DOES NOT equate to braking effectiveness.

I too laugh at the SUV lined up in the ditch after every snowfall and smile to myself as they tailgate my monster truck and pass because they think I could drive a lot faster.

My speed is always determined by my estimate of braking distance. Speed doesn't kill - stopping does.

Nick

[John Hannaford]

Dave,

So let's work this one out. You say you seek a world, where everyone else can stop as fast or faster than you, or at least has lower mass so they won't do you as much damage.

Ummm, Dave....

[Nissan Racer]

SUV's...ha...real men know a stationwagon when they see one.
Pat

[Dave Barker]

No John , I seek a world where people have the skills to know the limits of their vehicles under different conditions rather than pad their inabilities with an extra 1500 or 2000 lb of steel , where people learn these limits on race tracks rather than highways and where the most unsafe and inexperienced drivers are limited to driving slow light vehicles ( mopeds come to mind). Drivers with A licences need extra training, maybe we need the same for drivers of vehicles over 5000 lb.

And BTW , as Nick has mentioned , braking distances should govern speed. Either slow down or increase the gap if the conditions are bad. This seems to be a foreign concept to many SUV drivers.

[B18C5]

I don't really have much to contribute, but I have to say something...

I can't believe I actually know Yes! That's so cool! I don't know this Starship Troopers song (currently playing... damn it's long), but I know Owner of a Lonely Heart and uhhhh, I forget the other one. It's not done downloading or I misplaced it. Maybe they're not too bad. I'm just excited sorta to know who they are.

I kinda like my 4Runner. I'd rather get hit by someone in it than in the Integra or a Civic. I like being able to throw stuff in there, but instead it just gives me more room for more stuff. So instead of taking the tires out of the car when I get home I have twice as many tires and I forget to take them out for a week. Just what I needed.

I'm just surprised at how bad it was in the rain and snow! I hit a curb on the first snow twice in a row! It was the tires and just being stupid, but I can't imagine how many other people use tires like that. It inspires a lot of confidence being up so high and knowing that your car weighs as much as 2 Miatas. They suck without proper tires.

And I like talking on my cell phone when I'm driving. At the risk of sounding like the guy justifies himself by saying "I can handle it, I drive better after a couple drinks and a joint", I feel that I can handle it. Like driving in general. I got into a crapload of minor bumps and accidents before I was able to drive safely. Same with the one I got into when I was on the fone. It wasn't my fault (I got rear ended), but it probably could have been avoided if I was paying more attention. People are too quick to use "it wasn't my fault" as an excuse for habitually getting into no-fault accidents. I tell my friends that all the time when they get hit and they get urinated off. I guess it's just something you learn with experience.

Anyway... my whole point is I'm cool with people doing whatever they want to do in the car, whether it's eating, drinking, humming, talking... as long as they take proper care. Of course there is no way to police that, so maybe education would work. Maybe driver education. Maybe not letting these 16 year old punks get behind the wheel. Just let the smart 16 year olds (I sure wasn't). Maybe teaching people that driving is a serious thang, and not just a way to get around. Maybe beef up the public transportation system so less people are forced to drive when they're obviously not driving material. Maybe suburbs are the problem. We could all be living downtown riding our bikes to work and using our cars only to get to the track and/or cottage or whatever.

2 weeks ago I had 3 people drive into my lane while they were on the fone. That piz0red me off big time, but I gave this lady the finger and she got off the fone... so I felt bad for the finger. Cuz she thought about the situation and said to herself "maybe I deserved that and maybe I won't do that again", the same way I learned from the fingers I got... except for the ones from 16 year old punks who deserve to get a severe ass kicking for driving like I used to drive. ARGHHHH! If you see some punk beyotch in Pickering driving a white Tempo just cut him off. Thanks.

So maybe there is an answer in this! Maybe because of the explosion in cell phone users the roads are unsafe now. But maybe when these users learn how to do it properly then maybe the roads will go back to the way they were before! The same way I learned how to eat a Taco (no, not that kind) while steering with my knee and talking on the fone! The key is to not spill any of the hot sauce. Eating rice with chopsticks is my next quest.

Maybe the way to do it is to force people to drive beat up del Slos until they have 10 stamps on their minor accident cards. Then they're allowed to move up. Seriously maybe graduated licencing for certain car classes could work. Or weights... even better. I'd rather have some 16 year old punk rear end me in a Slo or a Tempo than daddy's Escalade. But then you might just increase the status of having a big car. I'm licensed... oh yeah... check me out... I'm good to 7000lbs... check out my hummer... and my big truck... It just doesn't work the same way today. I'm licensed... oh yeah... check me out... I'm good up to 8 axles... check out my hummer... and my school bus...

Okay, I think that's enough. I'm a little sleep deprived. Damn Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. You know how addictive that game is? And how much games like that are corrupting our youth? When I drive around now and I see someone on the sidewalk I don't like, I think about running them over. Or getting creative and throwing a molotov cocktail at them and their friends, then blowing their heads off with a sniper rifle with a laser scope! And I'm supposedly rated M for mature, just imagine what these kids are thinking?!?

Huh? I'm supposed to have a point?

edit: the key to eating rice with chopsticks is in the type of rice you use. Most north american rice isn't sticky enough to be able to be picked up with chopsticks. My favourite is basmati rice, which is very aromatic and yum yum with curry. It's more sticky than NA rice, but I dunno about using it with chopsticks. Sometimes it's coolio to mix cultures, but you can end up with some disastrous resluts sometimes.

edit: Video games really don't affect kids. If they really did, we'd all be running around in dark rooms, munching on pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

[ADAM]

what i REALLY hate... is when i am towing my car and trailer with my truck...and give my self the extra distance...just to have the wretched car drivers..weaving in and out in front of me...totally making my extra space redundant..one of these times one of those guys is gonna weave infront of me while my lane slows down...and bam....the little weaving car is gonna get smushed..

[Avi Koifman]

Great post Geo, I can sympathize with what you're saying.

Lots of people actually need trucks, and many actually know how to drive them properly (and courteously). Everyone here knows the type of drivers I (and Dave, I suspect) was ranting about earlier - they are far too common nowadays. It's unfortunate that a handful of tossers can create a stereotype that blankets an entire automotive market segment (mind you, hasn't that been the case for years with Corvettes?) ;)

Whenever I approach one of these land-barges on the road, that SUV stereotype has me automatically prepared for the worst - my expectation is to not only be blocked from passing for as long as humanly possible, but also to have the driver position his tank within the lane, in the way that allows me the least possible visibility around it - countering every lateral movement I make to block my view . And it always seems so deliberate, doesn't it? Someone must know what I'm talking about (and I'll be damned if every single SUV doesn't have privacy glass, too :mad: )

Oh dear, I'm ranting again, aren't I? Well, suffice to say that I do have sympathy for the responsible SUV owner, the one who actually needs and uses its capabilities as a hauler of people, stuff and especially racing cars - I have extra patience for you lot :)

Regarding cell phones though, nobody is innocent there. IMO, these things should be strictly banned for all drivers. Period. And I challenge anyone to say that talking on the phone does not impede their attention to the road. Bollocks.

I don't care if you're Michael effing Schumacher, if the call's that important - pull over!

Now that I'm through insulting probably everyone who reads this board (my bosses included :eek: ), I'll retreat back into my little corner.

[Shaman]

Originally posted by ADAM
what i REALLY hate... is when i am towing my car and trailer with my truck...and give my self the extra distance...just to have the wretched car drivers..weaving in and out in front of me...totally making my extra space redundant..one of these times one of those guys is gonna weave infront of me while my lane slows down...and bam....the little weaving car is gonna get smushed..

It drives me crazy. I have brakes on both trailer axles, but I swear sometimes that I need more. And once I've been unable to take an exit because, though I signalled and made motions to get into the 401 exit, cars continued to tear past me 30km/h faster than I was going. Nobody would let me over.

I've learned. Now, I signal, and just start moving over. That gets the message out.

My question is, how do they miss a big red car on a big red trailer with two sets of signal lights flashing to pull into that lane? In broad daylight?! Toronto driving sucks.

[John Hannaford]

C'mon Dave, I know you're not one of those guys that needs the smilies to tell him when the tongue is in the cheek. You will note that I've resisted trotting out the statistics on sport coupes. You're welcome.

Avi - you are so dead on about that. But of course it's not just cell phones and I don't agree with George that anything is OK unless you're distracted, since the final test for that condition is usually a crash. People are no better at judging their level of awareness than they are at judging their blood alcohol level. And skill is not the issue. I don't think anyone cares whether you were threshold braking or just locking them up as you hit that car you didn't notice because you were tuning the radio/ answering the phone / talking to a passenger / drinking coffee ...

[ADAM]

i think they should build cars stronger so when you get into an impact its not a big factor.....

[B18C5]

OMG! I can soooo relate, even though I have relatively little towing experience! It took about 10 minutes to figure out that I'm going to get cut off, and about 2 hours to figure out to just push my way in when I have to. I used to get pissed off when big trucks did stuff like that. Now I understand.

I get the stereotype, and I do the same thing when I see SUV guys. The thing that's funny about that is now I can see how many people have the same stereotype. If I'm in the left lane behind traffic, if they can't see around me they assume that I'm just driving slow in the left lane. I have someone try to pass me on the right every day. Sometimes I let them go. I also noticed for some reason people LOVE to weave in front of me, even when I'm not pulling. I never had that many people do it in the Teg. That really pisses me off. Why would someone do that in front of an automobile that weighs twice as much as theirs and has the same size brakes? So I usually teach them a lesson similar to the one Bubba teaches in jail: get too close to the big guy and he'll ride your back until you regret it. Or something to that effect.

But yeah, most SUV d00dz are incompetent moronz who are compensating for having a small... ego. Yeah, ego.

For sure talking on a phone is a distraction, but there are a lot of distractions. I'm not saying banning fones is not a good idea, but it gives the impression that it's okay to do other things. How about specifically banning eating, or specifically banning the installation of contacts, or specifically ban hummers. They're all things that could be illegal, only they're not policed. The Honda Pilot comes with holders that were specifically designed to hold fast food sauce containers! If they just enforced careless driving... If they slapped a 6 point ticket to everyone who cut someone off while dipping McNugget sauce... well I was going to say it would curb that behavior, but I don't think it will. But at least they'd be getting the people causing the problems. Only thing is they can't be everywhere at every time, so maybe banning cell phones is the best way to go about it. The same way they can't catch all aggressive drivers, so they target the ones who speed. They do catch a lot of aggressive drivers with speeding, but it can be used like a fish trolling net too.

It's not like they need another excuse to pull me over, either. I've had a "your car fits the description", "you fit the description", and... uhhhh, I guess that's the only line they need to use. Hrm. But how about a "that looked like a phone on your ear", or "you've got mayo on your chin". That would suck... hehe

edit: I'm a slow typist. John, when I say driving skill can offset distractions I mean being skilled at compensating for the distraction, not straight up driving skill. People have distractions when driving, but they have to learn to deal with them. By banning cell phones you might as well ban crying babies and yellow cars. Hehe.

(yes, I'm am partially playing devil's advocate, but I'm partially serious too)

[ADAM]

if they built the cars stronger...then none of this would be much of an issue..since there would be very few deaths...and insurance would go down..it can be done....

we could make laws upon laws upon laws...ban trees..people look at them out the window...big ad signs...wifes as passengers.........sunlight is distracting..so are those damn high power blue headlights on bmw's lets ban them....sirens are distracting....those stupid electronic socialist signs saying wear your seat belts..or drive aware..all at the cost of millions of dollars of taxpayers money..or warning you there is traffic on the 401..when you don't have another route option.....

or screaming kids..babies...bad weather conditions...maybe a law on what weather we can drive in...rain..no driving...snow...no driving......

how about all those big distracting big rigs on the road.....ban those too...

where would it stop...

IMO i find the radio in the car the most distracting thing...then my wife..then my cell phone :)

[B18C5]

Ewww, why don't we type the same thing at the same time? Nice snail, by the way...

[ADAM]

happy honda eating snail....



Originally posted by B18C5
Ewww, why don't we type the same thing at the same time? Nice snail, by the way...

[turboawd]

Chevy Avalanche... like a BIG FRICKIN rock !!!:D

[John Hannaford]

Those signs are socialist? I thought they were electronic. I'm so out of touch with the new technology.

I think the evidence is pretty strong that people do not compensate for distractions. Else we wouldn't be discussing it. Still, I don't advocate banning anything except snail powered Nissans. Until we arrange to have the rest of you strapped into your pilot seats like young Alex was strapped into the aversion therapy chair in Clockwork Orange, I'll settle for my personal solution. I try to ensure that at least one driver in my immediate vicinity is paying attention. It's tough though, as he's easily distracted by shiny things.

[B18C5]

Originally posted by ADAM
happy honda eating snail....

Hey... leave your wife's CRV alone! It's just an SUV! :P

LOL @ John's post! A Clockwork Orange scared the crap out of me and scarred me for life. That's what I call an awesome movie! And that's funny about being distracted by shiny objects! I guess you must play Name That Mental Disorder too! I rock at that game! I have a few friends who work at group homes, so they've studied it a lot at school and they think they're the shizznit. They always seem to forget that three quarters of the girls I dated in high school were on anti-depressants and/or anti-anxietants for various reasons. Not to mention the year where that fact had me thinking I was crazy, so I had to look up everything. It was a fruitless search (literally LOL), so by the time I figured out that I'm just barely not crazy I knew all the ways that I could be crazy if something changed. Of course that made me crazier. If one day there was a keychain reflecting into my view I'd get all paranoid and think "OMG, that's the fourth criterion out of the four required out of six to have a positive diagnosis for mania acording to the DSM-IV guide!" Needless to say the fear of being driven mad nearly drove me mad. What incredible irony!

[ADAM]

i still have a fear from that movie of having my eyes propped open..

[ADAM]

ok... "big brother" signs if you wish...or more correctly your hard earned tax dollars at work (or should i say not at work) next they will be posting that you must brush your teeth everyday to stop tooth decay...the amount of government intervention that we have to put up with is never ending..


of course what you really might have to fear is the full JDM s14 nissan 240sx snail with the SR20DET motor that is coming out next season( quincy's)..an actual factory turbocharged setup..no a hoaky cluged together system like mine....that might put some fear into your v8 :)


Originally posted by John Hannaford
Those signs are socialist? I thought they were electronic. I'm so out of touch with the new technology.

I think the evidence is pretty strong that people do not compensate for distractions. Else we wouldn't be discussing it. Still, I don't advocate banning anything except snail powered Nissans. Until we arrange to have the rest of you strapped into your pilot seats like young Alex was strapped into the aversion therapy chair in Clockwork Orange, I'll settle for my personal solution. I try to ensure that at least one driver in my immediate vicinity is paying attention. It's tough though, as he's easily distracted by shiny things.

[ADAM]

i think that if you thought you were crazy..that being able to think you might be crazy is proof you are definately not crazy...


Originally posted by B18C5
Hey... leave your wife's CRV alone! It's just an SUV! :P

LOL @ John's post! A Clockwork Orange scared the crap out of me and scarred me for life. That's what I call an awesome movie! And that's funny about being distracted by shiny objects! I guess you must play Name That Mental Disorder too! I rock at that game! I have a few friends who work at group homes, so they've studied it a lot at school and they think they're the shizznit. They always seem to forget that three quarters of the girls I dated in high school were on anti-depressants and/or anti-anxietants for various reasons. Not to mention the year where that fact had me thinking I was crazy, so I had to look up everything. It was a fruitless search (literally LOL), so by the time I figured out that I'm just barely not crazy I knew all the ways that I could be crazy if something changed. Of course that made me crazier. If one day there was a keychain reflecting into my view I'd get all paranoid and think "OMG, that's the fourth criterion out of the four required out of six to have a positive diagnosis for mania acording to the DSM-IV guide!" Needless to say the fear of being driven mad nearly drove me mad. What incredible irony!

[John Hannaford]

The diagnostic guide has made it all so simple. Just pick your target medication and tick off the criteria on the right sheet. We all fit enough of them for Dr. Feelgood! If you pick the right one you'll find yourself saying thing like, "JDM s14 nissan 240sx snail with the SR20DET".

[Rob McAuley]

Okay Geo - what is B18C5?

Some Battleship winning move, or something to do with plastic explosives?

BTW, 11 yr old daughter Sarah loves the soundtrack to Clockwork Orange. She took the CD into her skating coach and asked if she could build a singles routine around a couple of the pieces. Now the coach thinks I'm showing the girls ultra violent movies. But I wouldn't let them buy the DVD with their Christmas money - Honest!

[Moose]

Rob,

B18C5 is the engine code for the Acura Type R engine



195 HP, 130 Ft/lbs out of 1.8L ... 108 HP / Litre ... STOCK from the Acura factory

VS the Nissan 240Sx 2.4L 155 HP 160 ft/lbs + 64.6 HP/Litre ... hmmm no wonder Adam is boosting .... seems like he was suffering from HP envy : P

Cheers

Moose

[ctheo]

Ban cell phone use in cars. Your conversation is not as important as the lives of those sharing the road with you. Get in you car turn your phone off and drive. Trust me, you'll enjoy some time to yourself. Punishment should be having your mother-in-law in the car with youat all times. Try to have a phone conversation over that racket!

Ban eating in cars. You hunger is not as important as the lives of those sharing the road with you. If you get caught eating behind the wheel the punishment should be to permanantly close your drivers side windows. That shoud keep your fat lazy ass away from the drive thru. You could probably stand to lose a few pounds anyway.

I spend far too much time on the road, and most of the time I'm sharing the road with very stupid people. People trying to eat foolish things like soup or cereal, reading the paper or even talking on the phone while taking notes. If all those clowns knew that I'm driving a 3500lb car with 234HP & 240ft/lbs of torque, a car that I don't own, I don't pay the insurance on & there's no penelty to me if I crash it into them, perhaps they'd take a little more care when they're around me. Bastards.

[Jay]

Amazing post Geo! Another masterpiece!:)

Seems to me that fast drivers often have good things to say! ;) Tee hee

[ADAM]

ahhh i have the sohc motor....

140hp and 152ftlbs torque in stock form...those numbers you posted are for the dohc motor...... :)

lets just remember my engine is a single cam....iron block....non v-tec...hydralic lifter 1970's design engine...with only 8.5:1 compression..and a peak rpm of only 6500rpm...........and if i remember even in its VERY untuned state layed down more torque at the HADA weasel dyno meet...than HADA's TOP 2 cars put together :)

lets see you boost that type R...ha ha ha ...those high revs and high compression = engine death.....look at prattes motor..and its not even forced induction

my engine with turbo IS the winning setup....and next season i will have the proper A/F ratio...not 8:1 and spewing out unburned fuel...that alone is a huge power gain......and what you should FEAR the most is....my street suspension is being replaced by a set of TEIN RA's...this by far will make more difference than the extra 80rwhp that i will have next season.... type r's will NOT have a chance....the NISSAN will rein supreme......ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...

and if it blows up....no biggi..i just bought a spare motor( with tranny) for $150cdn..and have it sitting in storage waiting....WHATS THAT $150 YOU SAY... i can't even buy my honda rice LED washer lights for that.....ha ha ha ha







Originally posted by Moose
Rob,

B18C5 is the engine code for the Acura Type R engine



195 HP, 130 Ft/lbs out of 1.8L ... 108 HP / Litre ... STOCK from the Acura factory

VS the Nissan 240Sx 2.4L 155 HP 160 ft/lbs + 64.6 HP/Litre ... hmmm no wonder Adam is boosting .... seems like he was suffering from HP envy : P

Cheers

Moose

[ADAM]

ha ha ha ha 130ftlbs torque.......can you imagine whats going to happen to this chart when 12:1 A/F ratio is met...

http://www.turbo240sx.ca/dyno%20run%20oct%2030%2002.jpg





Originally posted by Moose
Rob,

B18C5 is the engine code for the Acura Type R engine



195 HP, 130 Ft/lbs out of 1.8L ... 108 HP / Litre ... STOCK from the Acura factory

VS the Nissan 240Sx 2.4L 155 HP 160 ft/lbs + 64.6 HP/Litre ... hmmm no wonder Adam is boosting .... seems like he was suffering from HP envy : P

Cheers

Moose

[Shaman]

http://www.rumour.com/422dyno.jpg

Bah. Who needs turbos?

Lucky we got it tuned after this run. ;)

[ADAM]

BAHHH... thats a huge built v8 though.....we are in the small 4cyl world battle here....

you don't want me to bring out john forces dyno run ....do you ...

[Shaman]

Actually, yes. I'd love to see Force's dyno run. :)

Superchargers are violent.

[B18C5]

Hehe. So how come you could only distance youself by a couple tenths from a car with a chart that looks like this:
http://www.hotmayo.com/dynoplots/new.gif

Hehe. Do I have to go turbo to prove that I can? High compression + turbo = lots of power. Something like that. Actually it's something I thought about... until I heard about your problems...

[ADAM]

he he...
1= your probably a better driver
and
2= i am on 192lb springs up front and 110lb springs in the rear :)

once those tiens go in with 500lb+ springs watch out.....it really came to light when i went out on the protrack with dave pratte..and he was taking the back straight corner 20kph+ faster than i could...while my suspension was being maxed out and fluttering and going all over the place...

don't worry GEO...don't worry...next season..that few tenths will grow to maybe 2-3 seaconds... :)

re: turbo and high compression.....its not really that much of an issue...as long as you use the correct fuel...run race fuel and you will be ok (110octane+)...

..what really will get you is the forced induction and the high revs...look at prattes motor....it was revving at 9000rpm....now think if you start adding forced induction at that RPM...the dynamic loads on the components will skyrocket...and what does that add up too......a big bomb....and with the weak blocks that the hondas have...its no good.....

my motor on the other hand...stock 8:5:1 compression..iron block with huge crankshaft and rods..nice and low..can run on ultra 94 fuel.....on the track i am only revving to 5900rpm..then shifting....very little stress on the motor.....

i think it would cost an arm and a leg to prepare the type r motor to get it to work with a turbo....and another downside...the v-tec......it is no good for forced induction... the vtec would cause blow thru on the agressive cam...so a major part of the type r's performance would be negated by going turbo...




Originally posted by B18C5
Hehe. So how come you could only distance youself by a couple tenths from a car with a chart that looks like this:
http://www.hotmayo.com/dynoplots/new.gif

Hehe. Do I have to go turbo to prove that I can? High compression + turbo = lots of power. Something like that. Actually it's something I thought about... until I heard about your problems...

[Shaman]

And, a major issue is that Solo-1 tracks don't really lend themselves to powerful cars. Quite frankly, I doubt that if I had 100hp more that I'd be much, if any, faster than with "only" 450hp.

To a Civic, Shannonville is large. To something with over 500hp, Shannonville is tiny. I can just barely get into fifth gear (but rarely bother) and most of the course is done in third.

Each car has its Forte. Personally, while I plan to do Solo-1 with a vengeance this year, I built my car to do big tracks like Road Atlanta (which, oddly enough is fairly small for a "big track"), VIR, et al. There's nothing like having the scenery go by at 250km/h and you still can't see the braking zone.

[Jay]

Adam.... yer killin me guy!

You not only rock the Casbah, but you rock the Cash Bar located in the Casbah! :D

Lovin the dialogue over here!

Jay

[ADAM]

HIND GRINDER... how have you been buddy.... when is the hada go karting going to start...


Originally posted by Jay
Adam.... yer killin me guy!

You not only rock the Casbah, but you rock the Cash Bar located in the Casbah! :D

Lovin the dialogue over here!

Jay

[Dave]

*said with 'The Simpsons' Comic Book Guy accent*

BEST THREAD EVER!!!

I love to mock SUV drivers/owners, but I find myself wanting/needing one to tow my stinkin' Civic to the track. I won't pass smog any more and the spring rates are going up to kidney rupturing levels next year.

Geo and John, kudos to you both for having impressively warped minds!

[B18C5]

Yayyyy! I LOVE being part of the Mindwarp Kru! Free meds on the house! Heh.

About the blowby with large overlap cams: actually, at least in the old days when I cared what the drag guys were up to, with turbo B18Cs most guys would use ITR intake cams and occasionally exhaust cams too. But almost always ITR intake cams. The reasoning behind the minimal blowby was that on a turbo application the backpressure from the turbo was enough to hold the intake charge in the cylinder. I think that's why ITRs make so much more power with larger turbos like a T4 than they do with T3s, even at the same boost levels. With a supercharger everything sucks, and ITRs make no power, unless you deactivate VTEC, which noone does except for Endyn's mythical vapourware supercharger, so that might not be true.

Basically, what it all boils down to is I saw an ITR with a T3/4 bolted on with fuel mods put out over 250 to the wheels. With race gas, maybe I could do that reliably... hrm...

[ADAM]

they make more power with the t4's vs t3's or t25's cause the larger turbos produce less heat..thus more power..the bigger they are basically the more thermally efficient they are...

i experimented with my race cam ...and had tons of blow by..and basically switched back to the stock cam the car came with....

a straight t4 on a 1.8 l would be hell on the race track since it would take a while to spool up...especially if you ever let the revs drop

my t3/t4 works well on my 2.4l...very little lag...

turbos are fun...it would be a great project GEO...



Originally posted by B18C5
Yayyyy! I LOVE being part of the Mindwarp Kru! Free meds on the house! Heh.

About the blowby with large overlap cams: actually, at least in the old days when I cared what the drag guys were up to, with turbo B18Cs most guys would use ITR intake cams and occasionally exhaust cams too. But almost always ITR intake cams. The reasoning behind the minimal blowby was that on a turbo application the backpressure from the turbo was enough to hold the intake charge in the cylinder. I think that's why ITRs make so much more power with larger turbos like a T4 than they do with T3s, even at the same boost levels. With a supercharger everything sucks, and ITRs make no power, unless you deactivate VTEC, which noone does except for Endyn's mythical vapourware supercharger, so that might not be true.

Basically, what it all boils down to is I saw an ITR with a T3/4 bolted on with fuel mods put out over 250 to the wheels. With race gas, maybe I could do that reliably... hrm...