Air powered torque guns and Princess Auto

[Dave Barker]

We just had a new Princess Auto open up in Whitby ( with a huge opening day) This store sells lots of tools that appear both inexpensive AND cheap. I looked at one of their torque guns which is obviously designed to look exactly like an Ingersol-Rand type but is a Made in Taiwan knock off. Does anyone have any experience with these pieces ? A few mechanics I know swear by Ingersol- Rand ( interestingly made in Japan) and the Husky gun I own now is not capable of anything like its advertised torque and doesn't work the 100 lb torque stick well, ( maxing out at about 82-84 lb/ft on a 100 lb/ft stick).

[ctheo]

I sold pneumatic tools for 3 years so I know a bit about them. First off there's a HUGE difference between cheap off shore tools and high end tools Japanese tools like some IR and Uyru.

I could list all the short comings of cheap off shore tools but I don't think we have enough bandwidth here.

The short list would be (and most of the problems stem from these areas)

1) Weak castings - This leads to leaks due to poor seals (this will cost you torque), anmd generally weak tools. One good drop and they're finished.
2) Thin veins - These are the equilivilant of piston rings. The blow by will also cost you torque.
3) Brutal Bearnings - These things are just plain sloppy.

Honestly, don't waste your money.

That said you don't need to go out and buy an IR Thunder Gun for $500. I think the best pneumatic tools for the money are Sioux and Blue Point.

The Blue Point AT355A Impact Wrench, Air, 3/8" Drive (50-160 ft. lb.) can be had for CAD $264.95 from the Snap-on website.
Sioux tools are sold through local distributors.

One reason your Husky impact driver might not be generating as much torque as it advertises is that it might not be getting enough air. PSI doesn't give you torque, SCFM does. You should have at least a 20 gallon air tank, use at least a 3/8 air line and 3/8 truflo couplings. The tools will work with less air, just not as well.

BTW - Both Sioux and Blue Point are owned by Snap-on. I happen to work for a division of Snap-on, but I don't sell these particular tools. I'm trying my best to be unbiased, but I'm a salesman so it's difficult.

[ADAM]

i have bought all tawianse air tools...WHY you say...i am not a full time mechanic..so my wear and tear on them is limited...if they do break or fail...just chuck it out...cause the good ones cost 5 times as much....as for air loss.....i got lots of air ..and air is free :)

case in point...mini diegrinder...mine cost $35 dollars...good one $150+...

i have over 50 hours running time on it...no problems yet.... i just keep it well lubed....

thats my 2cents

same goes with my air gun..and air wratchet (sp)

[ADAM]

and i beat the piss out of these tools...no failures yet....had them 2 years now...

[ctheo]

No failures yet, but they will. Tools only break at the worst possible time, like when the cars is in pieces and it's 2:30am the Friday before a race weekend.

Regarding air loss you're right, air is free. The problem is you are losing efficiency, and that seems to be a problem Dave is having.

I'm not going to preach, as I've been able to buy high-end tools at cost, and on occasion they're free. I do have some cheap tools though. Either way, "buy best tools for the job" is the best advice I can offer. If you're using it once buy it from Princess Auto. If you know you'll be putting 50 or 60 hours on a tool every year you can justify buying a better one.

If I was racing as actively as Adam is I'd try to spread my money out as much as possible. Hell, I'd might even try to race highly tuned hondas with a turbo truck motor. ;) Adam, drop me a line next time you need tools. I'll set something up for you.

[Dave Barker]

Part of the reason my Husky gun doesn't work the torque stick well is that I think it has a very fine ratchet i.e. lots of clicks per revolution meaning that it doesn't move the torque stick as much before slipping back , thereby limiting the torque applied. I don't think I am leaking any significant amount of air.

[ctheo]

Dave, is it a ratchet or a impact gun? If it's a rachet it just plain won't do 100ft/lbs. If it's an impact gun it doesn't have a rachet mechanism. It has what I can only describe as a mini air driven rotary engine inside it. (If yo don't know how that works check this out http://www.howstuffworks.com/rotary-engine.htm )

So there's a housing that's say 2" inside diameter, inside that housing is a rotor that's say 1.99"outside diameter. That leaves a .01" space between the rotor and housing. Running along the length of the rotor are 3-5 pieces of composite material that sit in little slits in the rotor. These are called viens. As the air enters the space between the housing and rotor the viens catch the air and turn the rotor. The turning of the rotor is what gives you the torque. Of course the rotor is geared up or geared down, but there is no actual ratchet in the tool anywhere.

The leaks occur internally as blowby. You wouldn't hear anything out of the ordinary while using the tool. But I don't think that's the problem you're having.

What sized compressor do you have (how big is the air tank) and
what is the inside diameter of the air line?

What I'm getting at here is I don't believe a new tool is going to help. You may have a simple air problem.

[Dave Barker]

It is an impact gun which seems to have a lot of blows per second compared to many . The compressor tank is 20 gal with a 5 hp oiless motor which seems to have no problem with the 5.1 cfms needed. I run it at either 90 or 95 lb pressure and am not sure of the air hose size.

[GR8 Ride]

I'll second the notion on cheap tools (ie, you get what you pay for).

Husky isn't bad, but nowhere near as solid as the Blue Point stuff (of which I have some), or other Snap-On parts.

One thing to keep in mind, is that a lot of this stuff is manufactured by a few companies, and OEM'd to companies who claim it as their own. Even Snap-On is guilty of this on occasion, though generally only on some power tools, and not their hand tools, which are second to none.

Another thing you'll find with cheap air tools is that they require more air than an equivalent tool from a reputable manufacturer. A cheap impact gun might require 6.0 SCFM or better to produce the same torque as a Blue Point unit running at 4.0 SCFM. (An extreme example, but it's not far off).

If you're a home hobbyist and are restricted by space / power etc in what air compressor you can run, then it's better to splurge a little on top-name tools, as they'll help to keep your compressor from working too much overtime.

Princess Auto does have some unique tools available, but a lot of what they sell is really bottom end stuff. That being said, I don't always suggest buying Snap-On stuff either, unless you twist wrenches for a living.

It's that age-old saying, "if you do it for a living, buy Snap-On. If you do it for the fun, buy Craftsman."


Pat