30 Bucks And a Helmet

[7plymaple]

Hey guys. I have been sort of reading a couple lines of everyones long posts about how to get more competitors. Seems to me like what ever you guys decide with the polls and stuff is not going to make much difference. Im sorry if that offends guys who put lots of effort into this message board. But no one else is going to come to solo 2 events. Solo 2 events are gay. Solo 2 is just gay.

We have all tried to get friends or just car nuts we meet to try Solo 2. But no matter how good you make it sound people always think "If its so good why have I never heard of it?" There are so many guys with the cash and the cars and the drive to be dedicated competitors. But they are all channeling their energy into sports that are MORE ACCESSABLE than Solo 2. Sports like F1 and drifting competitions. People actualy think they can get closer to the action by going to the Toronto Indy than... well what else is there for a kid whos into cars?

At the PITL events I remember the registration forms used to ask "How did you hear about PITL?" Well what were the numbers like for the "Toronto Star" option back in the day? When I read the tiny add for the series and I remember there was a line in it that said "Voted Torontos best autoslalom series". Man I was so exited to have something like that availble to me. I couldnt beleive that it was as easy as going go Karting.

There are SO many guys who WILL toss their cars arround and DO. Unfortunately they have been hooked by the big hyped up forms of motorsports. These young kids want to prove themselves so badly that they will take it to the street or just end up driving like nuts in foolishly modded cars.

I know the solo 2 community wants nothing to do with street racers. But why do kids street race? They want to prove themselves and their cars to their friends and community. JUST LIKE US. Its a guy thing admit it. To them were not even on the map though. They would come and play. Some to show us up (ya right) or some to honestly see what they can do.

We get some pretty cool coverage in Inside Track and Grassroots. But I think the people we should be targeting as future Solo 2 competitors havent been turned on to those magazines. REALLY... How cool is it that we can go to the track and compete then see our names in Inside Track?!?!?!

I hope Im not provoking feelings like "What do you want from me? What do you want me to do?" in the organizers. Guys I think I share with you a kind of crappy feeling that the sport I love is just... gay to most people. Nobody but us respects it and that sucks.

What can we do? I know that Im scared to suggest anything because theres probably a real good and (of course) obvius reason that it wont work. But I think we desprately need to be able to brainstorm like a team and decide what to run with.

When I try to read everyones thoughts and ideas to get more people out it seems like were trying apeal to people just like us. I think were all already here.

But back to the brainstorming thing/tangent. This is my Idea that Id like to toss in the pot for some criticism and to get other better or worse ideas flowing so no one person has to figure out everything for us while we criticize their ideas. If we all know what its like to have your idea shot down well know better how to address the pros and cons of an idea with the sensitivity NEEDED.

My Idea: I would like to suggest bringing the reality of solo 2 to people currently intrested in different forms of motorsports. I guess the cheepest way would be running adds in some magazines and as many papers as possible. I dont know how much it would cost or if maybe sponsors would be able to help with that or what.

Thats my suggestion so shoot it down or tell me why its bad but please lets try and get more ideas tossed in in a non compettitive way. Nothing good will come of this if everyones idea has to be THE idea.

[SE-R Racer]

Lol...probably the best arguement I've seen so far, maybe Solo II should look at adding $5 or $10 on to the regional events and put it towards advertising. Aside from Inside track, which magazines even mention Solo II..maybe we need a writer.








And maybe some music and Bikini contests :D

[ScotcH]

And maybe some music and Bikini contests :D


Well, that may be in jest, but I know I would go to more Solo II events if there were bikini contests (ladies of course ... I don't wanna see no bannana hammocks :rolleyes: ... apologize in advance to the 2 or 3 female competitors :) )

[J.C.]

The worst idea someone can have is not voicing their opinion for fear of being shot down. So as Simon says:

What can we do?


When I talk to someone about solo II, I find they tend to be dumb founded until I use words like "time attack" or "stage rally" threw a course of cones. What I find really peaks their interest is when I talk about prosolos. Head to head competition really gets their attention. I had heard we may have a couple of pros this year. Pros also get outside spectators wich means there is interest from outside our circle. If we could market this aspect to that outside crowd I think it would help grow our numbers and might get some of them off the streets.

[finboy]

. Solo 2 is just gay.

it is!!.. but luckily its fun and cheap.. otherwise we wouldn't do it


We have all tried to get friends or just car nuts we meet to try Solo 2. But no matter how good you make it sound people always think "If its so good why have I never heard of it?" There are so many guys with the cash and the cars and the drive to be dedicated competitors. But they are all channeling their energy into sports that are MORE ACCESSABLE than Solo 2. Sports like F1 and drifting competitions. People actualy think they can get closer to the action by going to the Toronto Indy than... well what else is there for a kid whos into cars?

-you can show people, make promo videos, inform people, educate people bring people, take them as a passenger to show them what solo II is about.

You can only do so much.. people will make umpteen excuses why they can't or won't do it


remember this poll??

http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=5284




I hope Im not provoking feelings like "What do you want from me? What do you want me to do?" in the organizers. Guys I think I share with you a kind of crappy feeling that the sport I love is just... gay to most people. Nobody but us respects it and that sucks.

I'm not sure if people are looking for RESPECT, or something else..
i'd guess its more about improving oneself than anything...

really do you give a crap how well joeshmoe does in his/her class??
prob not..

I think people here enjoy the competition among the cool people that participate in our sports.. so whether they win or loose.. isn't necessarily the primary reason why we come out..

its the fun battles among people you respect in different cars




What can we do? I know that Im scared to suggest anything because there's probably a real good and (of course) obvius reason that it wont work. But I think we desprately need to be able to brainstorm like a team and decide what to run with.

pho sho mang.. everyone should give their input!!
(the silent majority needs to say something)



When I try to read everyones thoughts and ideas to get more people out it seems like were trying apeal to people just like us. I think were all already here.

-that's one of my points... the club events are doing fine..
what can be done.. to get these peeps out to make the regional events HUGELY attended??





My Idea: I would like to suggest bringing the reality of solo 2 to people currently intrested in different forms of motorsports. I guess the cheepest way would be running adds in some magazines and as many papers as possible. I dont know how much it would cost or if maybe sponsors would be able to help with that or what.


solo motorsports is one of those things....its still the best kept secret...
basically you find it... it doesn't find you

how many "car enthusiasts" do you know.. vs how many actually particpate

my guess its a poor ratio

[finboy]

the Pro-solo's we've had at square one and Sherway always get a lot of spectators.. and you get a bunch of questions..


in the past.. solo II used to be held at larger shopping malls, till sunday shopping killed it


in general.. our events are kind of hidden from the main streets...

its a good and bad thing..


location location location..

if we ran in at the right venues... exposure, growth wouldn't be as difficult

[bbqman]

Hey guys. I have been sort of reading a couple lines of everyones long posts about how to get more competitors. Seems to me like what ever you guys decide with the polls and stuff is not going to make much difference. Im sorry if that offends guys who put lots of effort into this message board. But no one else is going to come to solo 2 events. Solo 2 events are gay. Solo 2 is just gay.



The only thing gay about autoslalom are those who think its gay because they don't understand the sport. If you only stay in your backyard to compete, it might be considered gay.
There is nothing gay about traveling 5hours + to compete with the best drivers in the nation or travelling 24 hours+ to compete with the best in the world.....the only thing gay is NOT Competing.

This is a sport that caters to a very small community and no matter how much advertising you do to the masses...you will never increase the participation in a big way.

The goal of these polls and posts are to figure out how to up the participation among those who do autoslalom currently.

Sorry to bust your balloon, but autoslalom will never attract crowds like drift or Indy.....it may be lack luster to watch....definately not gay!

[SE-R Racer]

The only thing gay about autoslalom are those who think its gay because they don't understand the sport. If you only stay in your backyard to compete, it might be considered gay.
There is nothing gay about traveling 5hours + to compete with the best drivers in the nation or travelling 24 hours+ to compete with the best in the world.....the only thing gay is NOT Competing.


Sorry to bust your balloon, but autoslalom will never attract crowds like drift or Indy.....it may be lack luster to watch....definately not gay!

You may not know this but Simon has competed regionally for a few years...in fact he placed 2nd overall his first year...I don't think he's saying it's gay because he's afraid to come out :rolleyes:

[Logan]

I completely agree with Simon and am glad he's expressed himself!
solo 2 is gay, it's the only form of motorsport that only a geek can love. Who else is willing to spend $30 for 5 minutes of racing to compete one at a time against your buddy for 0.001 of a second?
Us geeks get off on this stuff. We will never attract the "cool gang" because they would rather go out on Saturday night drinking with their buddies and sleep off the hangover on Sunday morning (OK, some of these activities happen in solo2... and the hangover carries over to the sunburn).
How does the sport grow? It doesn't. We ride the trend of lower attendance for a few years and it picks up again later. What's the cycle? How long has the regional series been running? Who's plotted attendance numbers vs Ontario club membership for those years? Of course I assume that CASC keeps these records.

[thekid]

Yeah Simon has pointed out what alot of us may not want to admit. While we might not think it's "gay", Simon is pointing out what others might think of it. I bet you several wives and girlfriends feel the same way about it.

My gf has asked me before, are you playing with cones again this weekend or are you doing the fast stuff (ie. solo 1)?

That says it all, and significant others should have a better understanding than the rest of the world and they still don't get it.

At any rate, Doug touches on another good point, a lot of people can't be bothered to get up bright and early for 5 minutes of seat time.

[smokinfire]

Something else that needs to be looked at is the single largest turnout of newb's all year long. Who else was impressed by the turnout at the YKW autocross. I'm not sure what they did for advertising, but there were probably 40 people showing up that had never autocrossed before, most were from a tuner crowd. There is definitly some interest from that crowd, and if we want to get them to show up, maybee we should look at advertizing in magazines that cater to them.

Also, it would might be an idea to have some business cards with the series info that could be handed out on a whim, maybee as some kid is revving you at a red light.

I know one of the places which got me interested was a booth at the Toronto auto show a couple years back, it was cool to be able to talk to someone from the series, instead of just looking at web pages. Maybee a presence at some car shows would help, or maybee some sort of partnership with some of the car clubs in the area. It seems that most clubs are more focused on drag racing for their performance areas, maybee some communication could help broaden their horizons.

[gatherer]

Simon has some very good points. for those that plan to continue in the sport next year and beyond, consider volenteering for various Jobs, or setup a blog and talk about your involvement in the sport. Setup a website and post videos of the sport to the website.

Talk about what you are doing in this sport in other areas besides this forum and your club forums. Mention it on "tuner" club forums and such. the best form of advertising is word of mouth.

if everyone in the sport Brought out 2 newbies to each event so many peopel would be hooked byt he end of the year that we'd have caps on the events.

[Slowpoke]

Something else that needs to be looked at is the single largest turnout of newb's all year long. Who else was impressed by the turnout at the YKW autocross. I'm not sure what they did for advertising, but there were probably 40 people showing up that had never autocrossed before, most were from a tuner crowd. There is definitly some interest from that crowd, and if we want to get them to show up, maybee we should look at advertizing in magazines that cater to them.


I almost skipped a regional to go out for it because it was close to my house and I had the chance to win a set of wheels. ;)


Also, it would might be an idea to have some business cards with the series info that could be handed out on a whim, maybee as some kid is revving you at a red light.

I know one of the places which got me interested was a booth at the Toronto auto show a couple years back, it was cool to be able to talk to someone from the series, instead of just looking at web pages.

The cards and Auto Show participation are already being done by volunteers who will appreciate your offer to help at the spring car show.

[Rob-RT]

I used to come out to alot of events. I thought it was cool to be able to push myself and the car in a controlled environment. I learned alot and had some good fun. I also tried to get people out with me, even just to watch, although I also found it hard to "explain" to people.

I no longer do solo2 and probably never will. I usually recommend it to new comers but tell them its a good way to learn the car, but you will be bored after 1 or 2 events.

Why? Well as stated above, getting up early on my day off to drive 1+ hr to stand outside for 6+ hours for what, 5-6mins of actually driving? Even with ride alongs I'm getting less than 30mins of in car. Sure the cost is cheap, but I would rather invest $200 in a track day on a proper track, which MUCH higher speeds, and imo, a much higher challenge. I personally compete with myself and my car, not with other people. So waiting an hour, sometimes more, in between 50 second runs, just not worth my time anymore.


I don't have any suggestions to make it better. You could maybe try and tag onto big events like the drifting events do. Setting up a small solo2 course at a cscs event would draw a crowd I'm sure.

[miataboi]

At any rate, Doug touches on another good point, a lot of people can't be bothered to get up bright and early for 5 minutes of seat time.

I remember a time in Picton..... when everyone else could... but Simon couldn't!

ROFL
:D :p :D :p

[7plymaple]

Something else that needs to be looked at is the single largest turnout of newb's all year long. Who else was impressed by the turnout at the YKW autocross. I'm not sure what they did for advertising, but there were probably 40 people showing up that had never autocrossed before, most were from a tuner crowd. There is definitly some interest from that crowd, and if we want to get them to show up, maybee we should look at advertizing in magazines that cater to them.

Also, it would might be an idea to have some business cards with the series info that could be handed out on a whim, maybee as some kid is revving you at a red light.

I know one of the places which got me interested was a booth at the Toronto auto show a couple years back, it was cool to be able to talk to someone from the series, instead of just looking at web pages. Maybee a presence at some car shows would help, or maybee some sort of partnership with some of the car clubs in the area. It seems that most clubs are more focused on drag racing for their performance areas, maybee some communication could help broaden their horizons.

Yes I remember seeing the ad for the YKW autocross on the Protege club message board. Those are the kind of promotions I think could help us out a LOT! I got caught up in the tuner/street racing scene when I was in high school. Then LUCKILY I tried Solo 2 in 98. After the very first event I knew all the street racing crap was just bull. Thats why I think there is a market within the Tuner, F1 and really any other bunch of gear heads.

And This isnt just my personal experience. Three of my friends also went along with this ride with me. I happen to be the only one to stick with solo 2 but the other three at least are FINISHED with street racing.

I think in 2000 I did 2 0r 3 PITLs and progressively more and more untill 2002 where I ran the whole season but didnt series register. Then since 03 I have been doing PITL and Regionals. So for the record thats where Im coming from.

The buisness cards and presence at auto shows and stuff are great ideas!

Some kids hanging out/loitering at a timmies bragging about street racing victories getting a bit of recognition for their love of motorsports along with an invite to try some REAL motorsports with a handshake and a card. I could see that!

And the same type of auto show booth setup at different car shows throughout the year is just multiplying the success of the auto show booth no?

Im pretty sure there are people wandering about my lack of attendance in 06. Well I bought a house and it wasnt in the budget and thats all there is too it. Ill be back next year. Hopefully with hoosiers. I love solo 2.

Thanks for the support and contributions guys.

[Maxpie]

Ok, here's my two cents worth... I have been involved in a bit of rallying since last November and have really come to love the extra challenge of driving in the dark. Since so many new potential Solo2 competitors might well come from the street racing crowd, why not try a new approach entirely. Namely why not consider holding a few of our events at night. Maybe create a bit more of a buzz and the crowd that is out there on the streets might be more interested....

I have a feeling they aren't the type that are likely to get up at 5 or 6 AM to drive to a Solo2 event but if it was at night they are already up and usually ready to go.... It might be just enough to interest a few of them in our kind of racing... I too love Solo2 (though I confess I am getting attracted to Solosprint as well). Just a thought?

Maxine

I'd rather be rallying today but I wasn't paying attention!

[gatherer]

Maxine,

thats a great Idea, I've seen it done successfully in many other parts of the country.

it's an untapped market (In the GTA) for any club that wants to try it out

[1morelap]

30 bucks and a helmet?

If it were that easy, it'd be standing room only. :)

If it's marketing you're trying to do, change the name to Autocross already. That's what is used when advertising in Ottawa and it has worked well. If not, then yah, soloII name is gay to anyone new to the sport.

Now I go back to "redline tV", they got Nopi gurls and Nos... yo. :cool:

[TOYSRUS]

The only thing gay about autoslalom are those who think its gay because they don't understand the sport.

You hit the nail on the head Carl, no wonder Ontario (minus Ottawa) is having such a hard time attracting people when current competitors don't seem to understand it:rolleyes:

Autocross, Autoslalom, Solo II, no matter what you call it, will never be as flashy, cool, or as hip as other forms of motorsport...never-the-less it is still the MOST participated form by far. As for those who claim it less challenging, there is a widely known saying in the SCCA : "If road racing was any more difficult...it would be called Autocross"

[bbqman]

Autocross will never appeal to the masses, no matter how many ads you put in newspapers and/or magazines.
This is a hardcore ( not gay) sport for a small niche crowd in motorsports. The way to bring out more competitors to events is really quite simple.

1) reduce the total number of events per year.
2) concentrate on making bigger and better events of those that remain.
3) encourage newbie support by veterans at events.
4) keep rules simple and constant over the years.
5) take care of your customers (autocross racers), whether it by by the clubs or sanctioning bodies.
6) aquire, support and retain sponsors that support the events.


FWIW, I have seen many clubs go after mainstream markets to build their customer base, but most first time autocrossers are shunned by the veterans and left to deal with all the down time on their own. Usually these customers do not return because they never felt the social aspect of the club while waiting between runs.

I was waiting for someone to comment on the 1 time event held by YKK in TO. As a new event, it drew many noobs from a different market because it was advertised like that. If the event was well run, and the prizes worth going after...I can bet you the next time around, many more <seasoned> veterans will sign up ...winning everything....and the appeal to the noob will be lost. The year after.....same suspects will show up and the 'new' customer will be lost again.

[Pete@Marcor]

I no longer do solo2 and probably never will. I usually recommend it to new comers but tell them its a good way to learn the car, but you will be bored after 1 or 2 events.

I might be a little different than the average competitor, but I think you get out of it what you put in. I have done lapping, schools, regional Road Racing, Pro level Road Racing, and some stuff in the US. Solo is just a different form of the sport. Yes, it is a shame that the amount of track time is less than the other forms, but the required precision for Solo 2 is way higher than any other dscipline. I do it to wee how well I am performing against the other fast guys. And, the budgets required are much less than other forms.

I am not expecting 150km/h straights, which are fun, as are the corners at those speeds. But, Solo 2 teaches you precision you do not get in other arenas of motorsport.

[soloZ]

I was waiting for someone to comment on the 1 time event held by YKK in TO. As a new event, it drew many noobs from a different market because it was advertised like that. If the event was well run, and the prizes worth going after...I can bet you the next time around, many more <seasoned> veterans will sign up ...winning everything....and the appeal to the noob will be lost. The year after.....same suspects will show up and the 'new' customer will be lost again.

I was there and except for the start the event went well, I tried to give some advice but alot of it went out the window. Oh and the prize is holding my car off the ground right now with my winter tires(I also weighed the trophy and at about three feet tall it weighs 13lbs) I definitly will be back next year

[Greg F]

The YKW event was very good. Those guys probably realised that the Solo II community is all about debate and no action, so YKW just went ahead and tapped into a market that Solo II was afraid of.

That could have been the real start of the pro (vs. amateur) evolution of the sport. Yes, lots of newbies came, but then again everyone here was a newbie at some time too...

[7plymaple]

The YKW event was very good. Those guys probably realised that the Solo II community is all about debate and no action, so YKW just went ahead and tapped into a market that Solo II was afraid of.

That could have been the real start of the pro (vs. amateur) evolution of the sport. Yes, lots of newbies came, but then again everyone here was a newbie at some time too...

Right on man.

Simon

[ShaneG]

I think I'll have to re read this thread as all the recent topics are blending together in my head...must be old age!

here is my 2 cents

we must first define what aspect of autoslalom we are discussing....
I 'll start with local / club events...I don't think that there is a problem attracting new people...at the HADA series we were seeing 20ish rookies for the morning walk (with 4 or 5 first timers [ever] at the LAST event!)

Reaching out to new people is a good thing for the sport most of the time. In my mind, it was great to see lots of rookies, but there are drawbacks to large numbers of them. we can all imaging having half the marshals on course out there for their first time!:eek: (right Miataboi)

it is also hard to mentor or give individual attention to (almost) half the field

on a plus side, they often have someone to compare their times to which is a reason to come back!

how many of us would be out every weekend if we were loosing by 5-10 seconds EVERY TIME...face it, we all want to win, and so do the noobs, even if it is an unresonable expectation!
We can't give everyone a class so we all win our class of 1, but we can try to make the competition fun.

open flowing courses, and little prizes etc. help

I personally would like to see the software be re-programed to show 1 more small thing. we show the rookies, I'd like to see tire type...R compound vs street. this does not require a new class, but it would allow a novice to look at the results and say I was 8 seconds behind the leader...but I was the fastest in my class on street tires (or 2 tenths behind the top street tired guy)
I don't know if Victor (or whoever) can do this easily (I'm no computer guy) but I suspect it would be east to create a report with 1 more field. and it MAY address some of the issues (again, this is mainly for the local/ club series)

The other thing that I am concerned with, for both the regional and the club series is critical mass! if you have a lot like the Powerade Ctr. (Brampton), I think critical mass is ~75 entrants. if you get much more, the runs become fewer ...or shorter...and we then get back into "solo 2 is gay" "3 1/2 minures of driving per day!!!"
A PMG type lot...well, that number goes way up...for a few different reasons

I think that this is true for the regional series also, fortunately there tends to be more experienced drivers, that will do the course quicker, hit less cones (maybe:D ), and generally be better prepared. so the number can be a bit higher

For the top dogs, you might sacrifice a run or 2 to compete with the best of the best and still have the event be "worth it" to you, but everyone has their own limit of what's worth it and what's not!

I, personally, would be willing to come out for a three run, 45 second course, if I felt that I was competing with the best of the best, with [in my mind] an even chance to give the "best" a run for their money on a 1 time event like a nationals.
I am not willing to do so for 8 events! ... for a longer series, I need to get enough runs to make the trip worth while...(although that may be because I don't feel that I have ever had the top equiptment, which, for me, brings the need for the fun and social factor to a higher level) meh!



Carl,
1) reduce the total number of events per year.
2) concentrate on making bigger and better events of those that remain.
3) encourage newbie support by veterans at events.
4) keep rules simple and constant over the years.
5) take care of your customers (autocross racers), whether it by by the clubs or sanctioning bodies.
6) aquire, support and retain sponsors that support the events.

agreed 100%
also
FWIW, I have seen many clubs go after mainstream markets to build their customer base, but most first time autocrossers are shunned by the veterans and left to deal with all the down time on their own. Usually these customers do not return because they never felt the social aspect of the club while waiting between runs.

This part is critical, club or regional....the social aspect is 80 -95% of why we do this!

anyway that is enough rambling aimlessly

nice topic Simon:cool: