View Full Version : How pointless is the MTO E-test?
spoonie
12-05-2006, 01:44 PM
$37.10 out of my pocket again.
PPM limit 200, read 7 at idle and 2500
CO limit 1.0, read 0.00 and 0.00.
my car is 11 years old with 295,000 on it. what's the point of this cash grab other than being a cash grab? :)
now, if they rolled in a mini-safety with it as well, i think it would be a hell of a lot more valid.
thgear
12-05-2006, 01:54 PM
$37.10 out of my pocket again.
PPM limit 200, read 7 at idle and 2500
CO limit 1.0, read 0.00 and 0.00.
my car is 11 years old with 295,000 on it. what's the point of this cash grab other than being a cash grab? :)
now, if they rolled in a mini-safety with it as well, i think it would be a hell of a lot more valid.
my new car is emissions exempt, buahahahah
time for you to buy an MK1
spoonie
12-05-2006, 01:56 PM
my new car is emissions exempt, buahahahah
time for you to buy an MK1
i already have one. however, i dont think it'll ever be road legal.
thgear
12-05-2006, 01:58 PM
i already have one. however, i dont think it'll ever be road legal.
whats required for road legality in ontario anyway
its just emissions, sound, and working lights?
spoonie
12-05-2006, 02:02 PM
whats required for road legality in ontario anyway
its just emissions, sound, and working lights?
if the car came equipped originally....
proper entry/exit doors. heaterbox/defroster. even interior doorskins.
lotsa soft safety equipment we dont even think about.
this is what i read into it, anyway, when reading the HTA.
speedmerchant
12-05-2006, 02:11 PM
..........no E-tests in Northern Ontario. Just goes to show you that it can't be that serious of a problem if they won't implement it Province wide.
malcolm
12-05-2006, 07:44 PM
..........no E-tests in Northern Ontario. Just goes to show you that it can't be that serious of a problem if they won't implement it Province wide.
but hey, all 8 cars up there wouldn't have too much of an effect, right? :rolleyes:
(just kidding) :D
but seriously, I am sure population density has something to do with it... Just look at Toronto. Rush-hour 24-7. EWWW.
I am sure population density has something to do with it...
Yes, more profitable.
Its like everything it comes down to politics and money.
John Powell
12-05-2006, 11:15 PM
Yes, more profitable.
Its like everything it comes down to politics and money.Mostly politics to please the EnviroNazis. :mad: The new car standards have already reduced automotive pollution to a fraction of what it was 20 years ago (sorry, I can't emember the exact number nor where I read it.) :rolleyes:
Bubblecar
12-06-2006, 08:01 AM
I had to have my pickup E-Tested recently.
What a joke - there is NO testing equipment for diesel :eek:
Just run the truck for 5 minutes and they look for excessive smoke or dripping from the exhaust! That's it. Doesn't even go inside the shop.
$37.00 bucks - none the less.
Hi Nick,
Yes there is proper diesel emision testers. It is an opacity test done at max rpm (2100). I have had both the Wanderlodge and the Volvo 770 e tested. These tests are performed at truck repair shops and costs $100.00. The equipment is connected to the MTO just like the car e test equipment.
Andy
Bubblecar
12-06-2006, 02:25 PM
Andy,
That's interesting (and suprising to me). I had two tests - one last year at a Scarborough testing centre and another last month at a local Canadian Tire. Both did the same minimal "observation" testing and gave me a pass.
I wonder what the actual rules/regulations require? I would think if equipment is available, all diesels should be referred to a test center. Is it a loop hole, or did I just get lucky?
Hi Nick,
I think they are treating the smaller vehicles differently than the larger trucks and busses. I feel all diesels should be put through a proper test and not a visual test and a sniff of a nose.
I am pro e test. I feel the only reason that the majority of people will make the effort to maintain their cars is because it has to pass a test before they can get their plates. I don't see many cars blowing black or blue smoke out of the tailpipe.
Andy
StewPiddass
12-06-2006, 03:52 PM
Oh it's not a bad idea... just that the execution sucks!
I was livid that I had to e-test a car while it was on a 4 year, dealer maintained lease. I know they've changed that rule but what is it now? I know it was from the 3rd year on. I would think that 5-7 years is more reasonable.
I don't mind paying a reasonable sum every couple of years to make sure my car's not a gross polluter but looking around it doesn't seem to be a system that's working very well.
tanney
12-06-2006, 04:33 PM
MTO should make mandatory re-licensing to get rid of the bad drivers that plague our roads. It's more dangerous driving to work than it is competing in motorsport these days........specifically in the GTA.
malcolm
12-06-2006, 04:40 PM
MTO should make mandatory re-licensing to get rid of the bad drivers that plague our roads. It's more dangerous driving to work than it is competing in motorsport these days........specifically in the GTA.
my personal opinion is that licences should expire after ten years. get your G licence at 18? retake the test at 28. then at 38. etc. That would eliminate a LOT of dangerous drivers.
thgear
12-06-2006, 04:53 PM
if the test one takes at 18 is actualy A TEST then it wouldnt be an issue
when i got my G it was a tuesday afternoon in Aurora... nuff said.
i completly forgot that one of my tail lights blew out, my isntructor didnt even check to see if they worked!!
a blind man on crack can get their liscence in ontario, it really is pathetic.
malcolm
12-06-2006, 04:55 PM
ok, step the test up a bit. include skid control. :D
thgear
12-06-2006, 04:59 PM
ok, step the test up a bit. include skid control. :D
not to mention basic car maintenance, "there is smoke comming from my engine? what do i do? i have a flat tire, what do i do? how do i jack a car up? what do you mean i have to change my oil? I dont need premium in my turbo car, gas is too expensive"
yadayada
when i was working at a gas station some guy was putting crappy 10-40 Shell oil into his FERRARI and filled up regular, i was like :rolleyes:
malcolm
12-06-2006, 05:03 PM
haha... yeah, it would be simple as hell to include that too. finish the test and then have them check their oil, tire pressures, and jack up one side of the car safely.
AFB Race
12-06-2006, 06:57 PM
I like that idea, it would get a good third off the roads, also I might add that anyone from a country that has no recordable snow fall that they MUST do their final test in a snow storm, we are in Canada it snows! The anarcist in me would like to see in T.O that the person testing the applicant not be from the same country of origin:eek: .It is a known fact that in T.O that with the right connections you can buy your test, it would stop a lot of "new Canadians" from fudging the tests.No I`m not racist, I hate all people.:rolleyes:
E-test is a bit of a joke. Repeatability is low.
New car standards require that cars maintain emissions performance for 8 years. In the current scheme, you pay for that ability (rolled into the price of the car) then pay for the testing up to and including 8 years. And you pay tax on both, twice (income and sales).
As for old cars, salt kills everything (of statistical significance) before 20 years hits anyway, so what good are the tests doing?
Give me 50,000 km safeties over 2 year e-tests every day of the week.
As for what is required for a safety, google ontario highway traffic act, or safety standards certificate, and you'll find it.
sjagman
12-07-2006, 08:39 AM
Light duty diesels are treated differently than Heacy duty diesels. LD is cars, pick ups etc. they are only a visual, to qoute the Drive clean web site FAQs:
"A diesel light-duty vehicle is visually inspected for smoke emissions as the vehicle idles for five minutes. If more than five consecutive seconds of visible smoke is observed during any one-minute period, the vehicle will FAIL the emissions test."
As Andy stated earlier HD diesels have to an opacity test.
I had to rebuild the engine in my old Mercedes because it smoked too much. 2 bent connecting rods. Ontario won't give you a conditional pass for a diesel like they do for a gas car that fails. Both my wife and I drive diesel cars, great mileage!
AND................ Ontario made HYBRIDS exempt from drive clean...........ummmmmm Gee they have engines too!!! wait until their engines areold and smoking from the owner not wanting to fork out big $$$$$$$$$$$ to replace the batteries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!
I would prefer a safety along with an emission check, that would make sense and get all the clunkers off of the road!!!
Steve
I happen to be aquainted to one of the first 25 people in Ontario whose shop got an E-test dyno. I know for a fact that for cars that are to go on the dyno a "mini" safety is done. Car is lifted up on hoist and an underneath inspection is done. Car will not be tested if there are holes in the exhaust system, CVs are "toast" or other items that could pose a hazard during the test.
Not all vehicles get to go on the dyno. Gas vehicles with full time AWD get what is called a 2 speed test with the sniffer up the tail pipe. Also, the inspector is required for all tests to visually verify that the FACTORY installed or equivalent emissions control equipment is in place. A stuck closed EGR valve will fail the test, a "dead" cat will fail the test.
DEK
thekid
12-08-2006, 09:54 AM
I happen to be aquainted to one of the first 25 people in Ontario whose shop got an E-test dyno. I know for a fact that for cars that are to go on the dyno a "mini" safety is done. Car is lifted up on hoist and an underneath inspection is done. Car will not be tested if there are holes in the exhaust system, CVs are "toast" or other items that could pose a hazard during the test.
Not all vehicles get to go on the dyno. Gas vehicles with full time AWD get what is called a 2 speed test with the sniffer up the tail pipe. Also, the inspector is required for all tests to visually verify that the FACTORY installed or equivalent emissions control equipment is in place. A stuck closed EGR valve will fail the test, a "dead" cat will fail the test.
DEK
There is a certified e-testing place in Mississauga called Mississauga Emissions Testing Centre, that don't even own a hoist. All they do is e-tests all day long, and I know for a fact that they don't do a visual on the underside of the car (exhaust or cv-joints)... so either it's not policy, or they're braking it.
I happen to find these guys to be the most impartial of any test facility I've been to, in that they don't have a shop to do the repairs so they don't care if you pass or fail. They let cars warm up first before they're tested, unlike some other garages who will e-test a car that's been sitting for hours right away.
ScotcH
12-08-2006, 10:00 AM
There is a certified e-testing place in Mississauga called Mississauga Emissions Testing Centre, that don't even own a hoist. All they do is e-tests all day long, and I know for a fact that they don't do a visual on the underside of the car (exhaust or cv-joints)... so either it's not policy, or they're braking it.
I happen to find these guys to be the most impartial of any test facility I've been to, in that they don't have a shop to do the repairs so they don't care if you pass or fail. They let cars warm up first before they're tested, unlike some other garages who will e-test a car that's been sitting for hours right away.
Yup, same in Ottawa ... there are a bunch of these e-test only places, which obviously make money, and certainly do NOT do any kind of under car inspection. My crap-box Nissan took 3 tries to pass (vaccume line issue), and each time took about 10 minutes start to finish.
Ditto for scarborogh (Markham and McCowan) and Ridgeville.
Definitely no undercar inspection. Thank God I didn't have to explain my soup can exhaust repair.
John Powell
12-08-2006, 10:37 PM
Yup, same in Ottawa ... there are a bunch of these e-test only places, which obviously make money, and certainly do NOT do any kind of under car inspection. My crap-box Nissan took 3 tries to pass (vaccume line issue), and each time took about 10 minutes start to finish.For future reference (and you know my road vehicles, Arek :rolleyes: ), where are those Ottawa places? :D
ScotcH
12-08-2006, 10:55 PM
For future reference (and you know my road vehicles, Arek :rolleyes: ), where are those Ottawa places? :D
The place I went to was on clyde, just south of carling, right before the bridge.
MightyMouse
12-14-2006, 03:18 PM
Give me 50,000 km safeties over 2 year e-tests every day of the week.
As for what is required for a safety, google ontario highway traffic act, or safety standards certificate, and you'll find it.
It is actually scarry what can pass a safety. The rules are REALLY soft, trust me, I know, I do them all the time.
Did you know that to pass a safety only the drivers window has to open? Or, that none of the shocks or struts have to actually work? (they only have to be attached at the top and bottom) Cracks in the windsheild are OK, as long as the drivers wiper does not touch them. You can only fail a car for a loose ball joint if there is a recorded spec from the manufacturer. (90-95 Accords don't have a listed spec from Honda, so the only way they don't pass is if they have actually seperated (the MTO confirmed this when we failed a car, the customer complained to the MTO and the MTO passed the car)
I could go on and on. Did you know that the car does not even have to run to pass a safety?
Just because it passes a safety, does not mean I would drive it.. :rolleyes:
if the test one takes at 18 is actualy A TEST then it wouldnt be an issue
when i got my G it was a tuesday afternoon in Aurora... nuff said.
i completly forgot that one of my tail lights blew out, my isntructor didnt even check to see if they worked!!
a blind man on crack can get their liscence in ontario, it really is pathetic.
Now your posts are making alot more sense, where did you get the crack? :p
roflmao :D
thgear
12-14-2006, 04:08 PM
Now your posts are making alot more sense, where did you get the crack? :p
roflmao :D
HEY
keep it on the downlow... thats what the PM's are for.... ;)
Interesting comments about E test only shops. I wonder how they answer some of the question that appear on the screen ? Who is responsible if the car blows up because it had no oil ? What happens if it blows a CV, locks up and breaks the dyno ? Does anyone know if holes in the right place in the exhaust helps the numbers ? Could be a profession in drilling holes in exhaust systems !!!! LOL
DEK
MightyMouse
12-15-2006, 05:17 PM
Interesting comments about E test only shops. I wonder how they answer some of the question that appear on the screen ? Who is responsible if the car blows up because it had no oil ? What happens if it blows a CV, locks up and breaks the dyno ? Does anyone know if holes in the right place in the exhaust helps the numbers ? Could be a profession in drilling holes in exhaust systems !!!! LOL
DEK
Interesting, I work in a garage that also has an E-Test dyno, and cars are not inspected before they are thrown on the dyno.....not for the amount of money the MTO allows shops to charge.
John Powell
12-15-2006, 11:35 PM
Interesting comments about E test only shops. I wonder how they answer some of the question that appear on the screen ? Who is responsible if the car blows up because it had no oil ? What happens if it blows a CV, locks up and breaks the dyno ? Does anyone know if holes in the right place in the exhaust helps the numbers ? Could be a profession in drilling holes in exhaust systems !!!! LOL
DEKI blew a dyno once with my MGB in 1969. My crew chief then was the Shop Director at a certain technical high school in Toronto (no names for obvious reasons) and we had the car in there to do a mid season engine re-build and run it in on their dyno. After the engine was run in, said crew chief said "let's see if we can get it to tach out in 4th o/d (our red line was 6500 rpm) and see what the road speed would be." So we did ... at least we got it up to about 5500 when oil smoke began to pour out from underneath the car. We shut her down real quick, but could see no problems with the car. One of us looked down in the pit and asked "is all that oil supposed to be down there?" Said crew chief looked down and said "um ... I think we've blown the hydraulics on the dyno" :eek: And that, for you Toronto taxpayers, is where some of your education taxes went to that year! ;)
Chris P
12-19-2006, 11:15 PM
Just purchased a 2005 Accord with 8,500km's that needed to be tested, go figure? I wonder what the predicted fail rate for this car(or any car) with this many KM's would be for a statistically significant sample.........0.0001%? Why are these vehicles worth testing? (I know the answer, just don't agree) Atleast the cert. inspection will catch a few salvage cars, but etesting new cars.........come on!!!!
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