CASC Ontario Region Message Forums  

Go Back   CASC Ontario Region Message Forums > CASC-OR Divisions > Time Attack Specific Forum

View Poll Results: How likely is your OTA entry, and What Tire Size do you prefer?
I am unlikely to compete in OTA next year, but below is my preferred size 1 3.33%
I may compete in OTA next year, not sure, but below is my preferred size 8 26.67%
Oh yeah, I'm competing in OTA next year! Below is my preferred size 18 60.00%
185/60R16 0 0%
205/60R13 0 0%
185/60R14 0 0%
195/50R16 0 0%
195/55R15 0 0%
205/50R15 3 10.00%
225/50R15 1 3.33%
235/50R15 0 0%
195/50R16 0 0%
205/45R16 0 0%
205/50R16 1 3.33%
205/55R16 0 0%
225/45R16 2 6.67%
245/45R16 0 0%
205/40R17 0 0%
205/45R17 0 0%
215/45R17 0 0%
225/45R17 2 6.67%
235/40R17 2 6.67%
235/45R17 0 0%
255/40R17 4 13.33%
225/40R18 1 3.33%
235/40R18 0 0%
245/40R18 1 3.33%
255/35R18 1 3.33%
265/35R18 4 13.33%
275/35R18 2 6.67%
295/30R18 3 10.00%
315/30R18 1 3.33%
335/30R18 0 0%
235/35R19 0 0%
265/30R19 0 0%
295/30R19 2 6.67%
305/30R19 1 3.33%
325/30R19 1 3.33%
345/30R19 0 0%
285/30R20 1 3.33%
285/35R20 0 0%
315/30R20 1 3.33%
Another size not in this list, posted below. 8 26.67%
N/A 0 0%
N/A 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46  
Old 09-21-2017, 09:48 AM
Saj5DJ's Avatar
Saj5DJ Saj5DJ is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 1,543
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Think you'll find, in practice, that 275 Rival S and 285 RS4 will have near zero difference in treadwidth if square setup with no pips is the primary desire. The BFG's run a little wider than the 'kooks. Like you say, options for sure.
__________________
Barry

Citizen Cone Dodger
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-21-2017, 10:24 AM
egroenke egroenke is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 69
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke View Post
Where was your outrage when the fake 200TW streets weren't made in even STOCK Corvette or VIper sizes, but your Miata enjoyed up to +50mm width from stock in your preferred wheel diameter? Starting the off-season rule battles, Barry?

Am I one of the few who has run RE-71-R, RA1, R888, R888R and RS4? I haven't run the new Rival, but seems to be equal to a RE-71-R. What we're proposing is a fair grouping. We could also cherry-pick which Streets to move up to non-premium R, but that is splitting hairs and this is fair placement for the R888R.

If you haven't tried the R888R yet: On my car, the R888R works better than the R888 on the front end which gives more confidence in faster corners. Making a Subaru turn in to a corner isn't easy, so for my AWD car, it works noticeably better than the R888. Not two seconds a lap, but in line with Toyo's data on the tire. The asymmetric non-directional tread pattern is odd to get used to, being able to rotate LF to RR without dismounting is also a help for Ontario's all Clockwise road courses.



I'd like to see OTA continue be a grass-roots competitor focused organization with fair options for all competitors. That also means keeping it affordable. Time Attack series need more sponsorship than race series because we're limited in the number of competitors we can have on-track at once. We can't put 60 cars out at once and let them "sort it out".

Steve, I've also run many of the combo's you have and I have data at least on my car that the R888R's in our GG compound are about on par with the RE71Rs in term of lap times at the DDT. The R888R's will have slighly better wear and last longer before going off in a session. I concur about the front end comment between R888 and the R's as well.

I'm very much in support of what you noted here and hope my work schedule doesn't preclude be from competing next year. Data talks and we all know TW #'s are BS
__________________
Evan Groenke
SOLD: 1999 Silver Frost Ford Contour SVT #1919 (236.7fwhp, 219.1fwtq All Motor)
STOLEN: 2006 Aspen White STI
NOW: 2008 Aspen White STI
TRACK: #200 2008 Legacy GT Spec-B (ex-Koni Challenge SRRT car)
Auto Parts For Sale.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:21 PM
Greg Campbell Greg Campbell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 225
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Barker View Post
The internet scuttlebutt (how about that for an old timer's phrase) is that the 285 RE-71R lasts for 4 hours of track use on a Corvette. ...
Anecdotal evidence, one data point only: I had RE-71s on my car at the end of the 2015 season. Did the shootout, two lapping days and maybe 2,000 street Km on them. Zero wear; and I mean no wear.

I think the perception of RE-71 wear rates is skewed by the tires' initial wear rates; they can go through the first 50% of tread depth rather quickly, slowing down after the excess tread depth is worn off.
__________________
Greg.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-21-2017, 02:46 PM
IWannaGoFast IWannaGoFast is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 118
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Campbell View Post
Anecdotal evidence, one data point only: I had RE-71s on my car at the end of the 2015 season. Did the shootout, two lapping days and maybe 2,000 street Km on them. Zero wear; and I mean no wear.

I think the perception of RE-71 wear rates is skewed by the tires' initial wear rates; they can go through the first 50% of tread depth rather quickly, slowing down after the excess tread depth is worn off.
I had a totally different experience with the RE-71s, went through two sets in 2016, both sets down to the cords by the 4th day of use, approx. 4 total on track hours on each set.

Tried the RS4s for 2017, they aren’t as fast as the RE-71s as they can’t seem to maintain the same mid corner grip levels, but after 4 OTA events and one lapping day I probably still have approx. 75% of the original tread depth left.
__________________

_________________
Carsten - OTA #276 GT1
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-21-2017, 03:33 PM
Greg Campbell Greg Campbell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 225
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by IWannaGoFast View Post
I had a totally different experience with the RE-71s, went through two sets in 2016, both sets down to the cords by the 4th day of use, approx. 4 total on track hours on each set.
I do remember that. To be fair there is a huge difference in contact patch (275/285 vs 255), suspension design (double wishbone vs. McPh Strut and Trailing Arm) for two cars with roughly the same weight (3100-3200 lbs).

My track time was also at the DDT which is super smooth asphalt vs. Shannonville sandpaper.
__________________
Greg.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 09-22-2017, 02:13 AM
Slowpoke's Avatar
Slowpoke Slowpoke is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,629
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Campbell View Post
Anecdotal evidence, one data point only: I had RE-71s on my car at the end of the 2015 season. Did the shootout, two lapping days and maybe 2,000 street Km on them. Zero wear; and I mean no wear.

I think the perception of RE-71 wear rates is skewed by the tires' initial wear rates; they can go through the first 50% of tread depth rather quickly, slowing down after the excess tread depth is worn off.
After running the first Ontario 1500 on AD08R's and using that set for a year + testing the next year, the second year we had eight (8) RE-71-R's in 285/35/18. First tire died after 1.5 days at Calabogie Time Attack / one Autoslalom. At the end of the year, six were dead, two were marginal. YMMV
__________________


Stephen, SPDA VP, OTA Director, CCC Member
OTA: MOD? -=- CSCS: SSA #842

Last edited by Slowpoke; 09-22-2017 at 02:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 09-23-2017, 10:53 AM
Brutus Brutus is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 62
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Attack Director View Post
Ontario Time Attack is pleased to announce that we are opening up options for "Street Tire" equipped cars in 2018 by allowing the Toyo R-888-R to be used as a Zero-PIP option next year. Toyo Canada places it's 2018 R-Compound order the first week of October so this poll will be to help them know what sizes we will need.

If you want to be sure that you'll have the size you need, you can place your order now with Braidan Tire or other club preferred TOYO MOTORSPORTS DEALERS for spring delivery. OTA competitors can get up to 40% off your purchase by registering for Team Toyo at http://www.toyotires.ca/racing-program.

Please select one of the first three options, and your preferred tire size.

Stephen Deneka
It sounds to me like a decision that effects all competitors has already been made and now we're being asked to place an order for our tires.

It's not that I disagree that coming up with a potential solution to create what is believed to provide a leveler playing field, it appears that an unofficial 'spec' tire has been announced or maybe not announced. Which is it?

If we could all run the same spec tire it simplifies one more preparation decision, assuming sufficient tire size and inventory to cover all returning competitors.

Hopefully these new OTA rules do not limit where a competitor can purchase their tires. I don't believe we should be allowing any corporate sponsor to dictate which independent retailer we purchase their product from.

Now as for the size requirement survey, it would be good if we could indicate how many tires of a specific size that we intend to use in 2018.

PS: I got a chuckle out of comments referring to how tires weren't restricted in the ''old day". Tire discussions and restrictions have been a hot topic since hill-climbs of the early 60's. Every 5 to 10 years the topic surfaces again.
__________________
Jud
OTA#47
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 09-23-2017, 03:04 PM
John P John P is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 804
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

I get about 1.5 seasons on RE71R vs 2 seasons on R-S3, before cording. I hope the 888, 888R aren't the spec tire for 2018, since two sets of tires per season would discourage me from competing.

OTA has been using 5 PIPs between tire classes, but we could use some other figure such as + 2.5 PIPs for the 888, 888R, RE-71R, etc (e.g. Street Premium?). This would recognize that the new street tires are similar to some R compound tires, and also help Toyo the sponsor sell more tires.

JohnP
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-23-2017, 08:02 PM
Saj5DJ's Avatar
Saj5DJ Saj5DJ is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 1,543
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by John P View Post
OTA has been using 5 PIPs between tire classes, but we could use some other figure such as + 2.5 PIPs for the 888, 888R, RE-71R, etc (e.g. Street Premium?). This would recognize that the new street tires are similar to some R compound tires, and also help Toyo the sponsor sell more tires.

JohnP
Nice idea.
__________________
Barry

Citizen Cone Dodger
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 09-23-2017, 10:31 PM
Lloyd_ Lloyd_ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Socal
Posts: 528
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Barker View Post
The internet scuttlebutt (how about that for an old timer's phrase) is that the 285 RE-71R lasts for 4 hours of track use on a Corvette. That is enough for possibly 3 whole days!! Doubt the Rival S is a ton better.
As it turns out, 33% better (4 days...plus a bit of autocross). Pretty scary cost per day.

They're at least fast as a R888's magic second heat cycle all the way to those cords though
Attached Images
 
__________________
03 Z06 #72
15 Prius V
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 09-24-2017, 07:55 AM
Greg Campbell Greg Campbell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 225
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd_ View Post
As it turns out, 33% better (4 days...plus a bit of autocross). Pretty scary cost per day.

They're at least fast as a R888's magic second heat cycle all the way to those cords though
How much camber are you running? Wear looks to be pretty imbalanced.
__________________
Greg.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 09-24-2017, 07:56 AM
Grant Galloway Grant Galloway is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 177
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Looks like I will be on RE71R cheater tires for next year! Was looking to run Hankook TDs as an R compound and take the pips but can't get TD's in Canada, at least not easily.

$880 taxes in 245/40/17 and 225/45/17 my pricing on the RE71R I will likely roast a few sets of fronts!!!!

Grant
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-24-2017, 04:05 PM
Brutus Brutus is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 62
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Hello again,

I've had a chance to think a bit more about the proposed changes to the existing OTA tire rule and wanted to express my view.

First off, my proposed rule change is based upon the assumption that the reasoning behind changing the existing rules are for the sole purpose of attempting to more fairly equalize the performance difference between some of the so called 'cheater Street Tires' and the Non-Premium R-compound tires.

Here is my proposal:

Current OTA Regulation:

.1 Installation of Street legal tires with a tread wear rating (UTQG) of 140 or higher. 0 PIPs

.2 Installation of “non-Premium” R compound tires, defined as DOT legal tires with a UTQG tread wear rating of less than 100 and that have a molded tread pattern with non-circumferential siping. 5PIPs

.3 Installation of “Premium” race compound tires, defined as tires that only have circumferential molded grooves but also includes Continental Canadian Touring Car Championship (CCTC), Hoosier Grand Am Cup, foreign market Yokohama A048R and all full wet weather race tires. 10 PIPs

.4 Installation of Race Slicks 15 PIPs

Proposal - Option 1:

.1 Installation of DOT Street legal tires with a tread wear rating (UTQG) of 100 or higher. 0 PIPs

.2 Installation of “non-Premium” R compound tires, defined as DOT legal competition tires with a UTQG tread wear rating of less than 100 and that have a molded tread pattern with non-circumferential siping. 5PIPs

.3 Installation of “Premium” race compound tires, defined as tires that only have circumferential molded grooves but also includes Continental Canadian Touring Car Championship (CCTC), Hoosier Grand Am Cup, foreign market Yokohama A048R and all full wet weather race tires. 10 PIPs

.4 Installation of Race Slicks 15 PIPs

Proposal - Option 2:

.1 Installation of a DOT Street legal tire, including “non-Premium” R compound tires, defined as DOT legal competition tires that have a molded tread pattern with non-circumferential siping. 0 PIPs

.2 Installation of “Premium” race compound tires, defined as tires that only have circumferential molded grooves but also includes Continental Canadian Touring Car Championship (CCTC), Hoosier Grand Am
Cup, foreign market Yokohama A048R and all full wet weather race tires. 5 PIPs

.3 Installation of Race Slicks 10 PIPs

While both proposals would essentially achieve the equalizing results, Option 1 would only change the classification of competitors running tires with a UTQG tread wear rating of 100 to 139. It would move those competitors down one class.

This change may create a sales opportunity for tire brands that have a UTQG tread wear rating of 100 to 139.

In both options, the rules still allow competitors to chose their own brand of tire.
__________________
Jud
OTA#47
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-24-2017, 06:23 PM
Slowpoke's Avatar
Slowpoke Slowpoke is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,629
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
It sounds to me like a decision that effects all competitors has already been made and now we're being asked to place an order for our tires.
Yes a decision has been made, no to the latter. All three clubs that run OTA were in favour of the R888R rule change, and that comes along with our first sponsorship contract for 2018.

The poll is a market survey. A long time sponsor wants to know what size tires our competitors use. Canada is a small market and no one likes buying two year old competition tires regardless of them being stored in a temperature controlled warehouse. Ideal for them is that they run out of every size they bring in a the end of the competition year and the market has zero demand until spring. That's near impossible, but that's their target. So they asked for a poll of what sizes people use. There isn't much, if any, exchange of inventory between the U.S. and Canada. (My guess, they don't like paying import duties twice since it's a competitively priced market.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
It's not that I disagree that coming up with a potential solution to create what is believed to provide a leveler playing field, it appears that an unofficial 'spec' tire has been announced or maybe not announced. Which is it?
You have another option to purchase for street tire class that . That's the opposite of a spec tire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
Hopefully these new OTA rules do not limit where a competitor can purchase their tires. I don't believe we should be allowing any corporate sponsor to dictate which independent retailer we purchase their product from.
The rules do not say which vendor you have to use. Participation in a Contingency benefit program may require you to purchase from a Canadian vendor. For example, Toyo USA gives this series nothing, so Toyo Tires Canada is not going to give you a free set of tires at the end of the year if your preferred vendor is Tire Rack.

Braidan Tire offers some coupons for purchase at their store, but they won't give you money to buy products that they sell from their competitors instead of them.

Make sense? Agreeable I hope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
Now as for the size requirement survey, it would be good if we could indicate how many tires of a specific size that we intend to use in 2018.
Go ahead. That's what this thread is for.
__________________


Stephen, SPDA VP, OTA Director, CCC Member
OTA: MOD? -=- CSCS: SSA #842
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-26-2017, 07:37 PM
Lloyd_ Lloyd_ is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Socal
Posts: 528
Re: Toyo Tires Announcement and Sizing Poll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Campbell View Post
How much camber are you running? Wear looks to be pretty imbalanced.
Something like 2.2F/1.3R.

It's not quite as uneven as you might think from the photo. But they do seem to like to wear the shoulders.
__________________
03 Z06 #72
15 Prius V
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.