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  #61  
Old 02-06-2014, 10:11 PM
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

To catch up on all thats been discussed.... I think having your car "wacked" is a great honor, I only hope one day it happens to me.

Corey thats to bad about the W2W but good stategy, I am sure you'll get it done soon!

As for the wack a mole stuff, I think this is Chris. P's year based on what I am hearing. Didn't we do that season predictions thread last year where we picked winners and dark horses and what not? I think its a Corey, Chris year again with Steve coming out to play as spoiler.

I am happy to be moving into the extremely popular GT3 class, I hope the numbers stay up in that class as it seems a few of the front guys are moving on to other things.

Barry, the ride we went for in that Miata at the shootout was impressive for sure. That thing has ridiculous lateral grip. I too am interested to see a power vs handling comparo this year.
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  #62  
Old 02-06-2014, 10:39 PM
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

How much does Scott charge for 6 wheel alignments these days?
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  #63  
Old 02-07-2014, 12:16 AM
3wheeler 3wheeler is offline
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewheelman View Post
To catch up on all thats been discussed.... I think having your car "wacked" is a great honor, I only hope one day it happens to me.

Corey thats to bad about the W2W but good stategy, I am sure you'll get it done soon!

As for the wack a mole stuff, I think this is Chris. P's year based on what I am hearing. Didn't we do that season predictions thread last year where we picked winners and dark horses and what not? I think its a Corey, Chris year again with Steve coming out to play as spoiler.

I am happy to be moving into the extremely popular GT3 class, I hope the numbers stay up in that class as it seems a few of the front guys are moving on to other things.

Barry, the ride we went for in that Miata at the shootout was impressive for sure. That thing has ridiculous lateral grip. I too am interested to see a power vs handling comparo this year.
I agree, but I(and I am sure others do to) just want to know how these decisions are made, that is all.

I would love to be competitive this year but I will most likely end up in SGT2 or 3 and it won't be easy. If I can maximize every pip taken, I may have a shot. My car will look radically different if i have my way..


My predicition for the podium in no particular order.

Steve B.
Erik D.
Chris P.

Dark horse: That crazy Irishman
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  #64  
Old 02-07-2014, 06:45 AM
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Ujjwal Ujjwal is offline
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

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Originally Posted by iamthewheelman View Post
To catch up on all thats been discussed.... I think having your car "wacked" is a great honor, I only hope one day it happens to me.


To be sure, for sure. I see you are well versed in f1 speech .

Basically, no one really thinks about if a car is really faster before whacking it - or if they do, they need a tune up in the ecu department as I have never heard a good explanation. It comes down to making the results look good and that is and always will be the first priority as close racing is what OTA is about. Why some cars get whacked and others don't is a conversation not fit for forums. Trust me, it's better to just accept the whacking earlier than later, and unfortunately, all the people driving your car will also be penalised.

I am anxiously waiting to see what happens this year, lots of car changes, will be interesting.
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  #65  
Old 02-07-2014, 07:46 AM
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

A few points here

1) Yes cars get whacked because they win. Our classification system is not perfect (although neither are results) and hence the need for adjustment. We really don't want to go back to the days when there were a few "right" cars to win with all other cars not being competitive.

OTOH it is very rare for a car to get whacked with just one driver results. The Nissan 350 didn't go up until a second driver did so well in a stock car. The SN95 Mustang didn't go up just based on Ujjwal's super dominating results in T1 and GT4. The S2000 did go up based on Krispy AFTER it had been demoted 5% the year before. BTW the C5Z has already been whacked twice and the times this past year were generally slower than previous years, is some cases significantly.

2) The addition of driver wgts to a car's base classification is an advantage to lighter wgt and lower hp cars. A fudge factor has been entered in to the calculation which basically leaves the C5Z exactly where it is. For an average wgt driver there would be approximately 3 extra PIPs for the CRX and 1.4 for the BMW. Whacking these cars just limits the extra advantage that most other competitors get.

3) While we are on the subject, both BMWs that did well this year had a number of mods i.e they were not bone stock. Both of these cars could easily decontent by less than 1 PIP and stay in their respective classes even AFTER being whacked. (we figure 1 PIP to be on average about 0.2 seconds but there is obviously quite a range). As it turns out both Lloyd and Krispy in their C5Zs decided to slow their cars down last year and stay in the same class due to being whacked and in general the lap times showed it.

BTW happy to continue this discussion but we need to move to a different thread.
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  #66  
Old 02-07-2014, 08:26 AM
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Ujjwal Ujjwal is offline
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

Oh Dave, I don't know why but I can't turn away from a discussion with you

Correction, sn95 mustang has been whacked 4 times, and the c5z only twice.
bmw e36 is similar to the e46 but no change.
e36 same hi as s2000.

A moderator should split up the posts to another thread.
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  #67  
Old 02-07-2014, 08:57 AM
3wheeler 3wheeler is offline
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

But Dave, that second E36 you are referring to was driven by a two time overall champ, so its not like it was some inexperienced novice.

I am bowing out of this discussion - I think I have my answers now.
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  #68  
Old 02-07-2014, 04:18 PM
John P John P is offline
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

Different view point;

Results for 2013;
E36 BMW won Events 4,5,6,7 and Shootout
C5Z06 Vette won Events 1, 2
CRX won Event 3

All three cars were pretty competitive to each other, with the E36 having a definite advantage.

All three cars were less than one PIP from class limit (CRX was .5 from limit).

For 2014, with driver's weight added, all cars were moved down from their class limit by the effect of the driver's weight.

The three cars had these Final PI, away, from class limit with driver's weight;
Corey in BMW, 2.6
Chris in Vette, 1.1
Mohamed in CRX, 4.7

One of our objectives was to minimize the number of competitors moving down a class because of the addition of drivers weight. We decided to subtract 1.1 PI from all cars in the series to bring the ones near limit back up to that limit. Here are the results after this adjustment;
Corey in BMW, 1.5
Chris in Vette, 0
Mohamed in CRX, 3.6

Applying the 1.5 PI (5% Wacking?) to the BMW and CRX gives us these PI variances to class limit;
Corey in BMW, 0
Chris in Vette, 0
Mohamed in CRX, 2.1

So, Corey and Chris are exactly where they started, while Mohamed gets 2.1 PI to be more competitive.

If everyone remained in their 2013 classes, but with the 2014 changes, above, I expect some of the lower hp classes would win, such as Steve B, Barry, Eric D, Andrew VDP, Pierre L, Mohamed.

JohnP
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  #69  
Old 02-07-2014, 05:17 PM
3wheeler 3wheeler is offline
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

Quote:
Originally Posted by John P View Post
Different view point;

Results for 2013;
E36 BMW won Events 4,5,6,7 and Shootout
C5Z06 Vette won Events 1, 2
CRX won Event 3

All three cars were pretty competitive to each other, with the E36 having a definite advantage.

All three cars were less than one PIP from class limit (CRX was .5 from limit).

For 2014, with driver's weight added, all cars were moved down from their class limit by the effect of the driver's weight.

The three cars had these Final PI, away, from class limit with driver's weight;
Corey in BMW, 2.6
Chris in Vette, 1.1
Mohamed in CRX, 4.7

One of our objectives was to minimize the number of competitors moving down a class because of the addition of drivers weight. We decided to subtract 1.1 PI from all cars in the series to bring the ones near limit back up to that limit. Here are the results after this adjustment;
Corey in BMW, 1.5
Chris in Vette, 0
Mohamed in CRX, 3.6

Applying the 1.5 PI (5% Wacking?) to the BMW and CRX gives us these PI variances to class limit;
Corey in BMW, 0
Chris in Vette, 0
Mohamed in CRX, 2.1

So, Corey and Chris are exactly where they started, while Mohamed gets 2.1 PI to be more competitive.

If everyone remained in their 2013 classes, but with the 2014 changes, above, I expect some of the lower hp classes would win, such as Steve B, Barry, Eric D, Andrew VDP, Pierre L, Mohamed.

JohnP
Thank you for painting a clearer picture.

As for the E36 having an advantage(over Chris) - I don't think so. I did however have an advantage due to tires... is that what you meant?
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  #70  
Old 02-07-2014, 05:36 PM
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haikara2308 haikara2308 is offline
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

Quote:
Originally Posted by John P View Post
Different view point;


For 2014, with driver's weight questioningcars were moved down from their class limit by the effect of the driver's weight.

The three cars had these Final PI, away, from class limit with driver's weight;
Corey in BMW, 2.6
Chris in Vette, 1.1
Mohamed in CRX, 4.7


JohnP
John just wondering how do you derive those numbers for the Pip change, I'm not questioning any numbers, I just want to know how to calculate how much pips I have to play with before moving a class.
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  #71  
Old 02-07-2014, 06:26 PM
John P John P is offline
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

Not sure if tires are the difference.

Chris (SGT2) ran on Toyo 888, R compound tires while Lloyd (SGT3) ran on Streets. Lloyd ran his C5Z06 Vette for two years on Streets (2012 - RS3 , 2103 - AD08R).

Here is a comparison of their average PAX results;

2012 - Chris - 99.198 Lloyd - 99.366 (Events 1, 2 were not counted since only Lloyd ran in those events).

2013 - Chris - 98.741 Lloyd - 98.603 (Event 3 results were eliminated because of rain and Event 4 because Chris didn't run).

In those two years Chris had 3 overall wins, while Lloyd had 2. Either driver could take the win on a particular day.

Maybe the 888 is better than general perception?

JohnP
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  #72  
Old 02-07-2014, 06:49 PM
John P John P is offline
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

Quote:
Originally Posted by haikara2308 View Post
John just wondering how do you derive those numbers for the Pip change, I'm not questioning any numbers, I just want to know how to calculate how much pips I have to play with before moving a class.
I past years, after the ccdb program was updated for rule changes, there were still some miss-understandings in getting it right.

For 2014 we don't have the 2014 rules in the ccdb yet, so it would be tricky to get the right answer from a 2013 run. Best bet is to wait until the ccdb program is updated for 2014.

Dave may have a better idea, when to expect the update.

JohnP
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  #73  
Old 02-07-2014, 07:09 PM
3wheeler 3wheeler is offline
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

Quote:
Originally Posted by John P View Post
Not sure if tires are the difference.

Chris (SGT2) ran on Toyo 888, R compound tires while Lloyd (SGT3) ran on Streets. Lloyd ran his C5Z06 Vette for two years on Streets (2012 - RS3 , 2103 - AD08R).

Here is a comparison of their average PAX results;

2012 - Chris - 99.198 Lloyd - 99.366 (Events 1, 2 were not counted since only Lloyd ran in those events).

2013 - Chris - 98.741 Lloyd - 98.603 (Event 3 results were eliminated because of rain and Event 4 because Chris didn't run).

In those two years Chris had 3 overall wins, while Lloyd had 2. Either driver could take the win on a particular day.

Maybe the 888 is better than general perception?

JohnP
I am sure there are a few people that would disagree.

But lets agree to diasgree.
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  #74  
Old 02-07-2014, 07:26 PM
John P John P is offline
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

Just presenting facts, not agreeing or disagreeing.

JohnP
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  #75  
Old 02-07-2014, 10:00 PM
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KLZEMX6 KLZEMX6 is offline
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Re: ===Definitive Frequently Asked Question Thread===

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Originally Posted by John P View Post
Just presenting facts, not agreeing or disagreeing.

JohnP
At buttonwillow hankook td's(superstreet class tire) are a proven 2 seconds faster then nt01's which are proven to be faster then r888's. Would be really neat to see Chris out there on td's I'm sure he would break a lot of records!
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