Street Studs for 2013 ...

[FatAndy181]

I re-read the thread a couple of days ago but have the memory of a small woodland animal and an equivalent attention span. Which other readily available tires did you see as a studable option that we could test this year outside of the Sailuns? I believe that there was mention of some Continenntals in addition to the Hakkas. Anything else to suggest to Andrey so he can buy something and put it on the ice?

[max attack]

Honestly the sailuns and the ipikes are the only 2 options that offered any real promise as they were far and away better than anything else tried.Both offer large sipe free blocks surrounding the stud pocket,good grip from the tire and a wide range of size options.The sailun is listed as pinned for #12 studs untill you get up into the large sizes that no one would ever try and use for ice race.Pretty sure off the top of my head the ipikes are pinned for the #13's.

[Do It Sidewayz]

Originally Posted by FatAndy181

I re-read the thread a couple of days ago but have the memory of a small woodland animal and an equivalent attention span. Which other readily available tires did you see as a studable option that we could test this year outside of the Sailuns? I believe that there was mention of some Continenntals in addition to the Hakkas. Anything else to suggest to Andrey so he can buy something and put it on the ice?

Following this from my arm chair, I like the looks of the Champiro IcePro. Nice stud areas void of sipes, along with nice scratch pattern (something that helps both grip and track wear)

Fwiw, the idea of bedding the studs by driving on the road is to actually cut the stud holes to fit tightly around the inserted stud. When the stud is inserted into the tire, the rubber simply contracts around the stud, in actual fact the pressure exerted by the rubber wants to squeeze the stud out of the hole. When the tire is run, the stud will cut the rubber around the base of the stud, the idea is you will end up with a "t" shaped hole, instead of just a cylinder.

It's my opinion that in any tire you have one good shot at stud retention.... The first time the stud is inserted. Once a stud comes out of that pocket the chances of a new stud staying are greatly diminished. Every effort should be taken to maximize the chances of the original stud staying put..

- Quickly reeming the stud hole (burn out mold release)

- Then a couple drops of adhesive

- Some run in (should be done on track in practice, just ride the outside bank at a slow pace...or add a scheduled session during lunch hour, you dont want the opp finding out people are flat towing their ice racers around town on stud tires)

Also fwiw...I very nearly came back this year to compete, but seeing the results from the first weekend I chose to sit back and watch...

[FatAndy181]

-Champiro looks to have pretty decent sizes. Wonder what pin it uses. You look at this one Tom?

-The theory on the stud actually cutting in is reasonably sound, I'm thinking we might have to investigate this on a tire that has had some bedding in.

-Come on Chris, every year you claim that you "might come back". We`ll believe it when we see it

[uptownguy]

Originally Posted by Do It Sidewayz

Following this from my arm chair, I like the looks of the Champiro IcePro. Nice stud areas void of sipes, along with nice scratch pattern (something that helps both grip and track wear)

Fwiw, the idea of bedding the studs by driving on the road is to actually cut the stud holes to fit tightly around the inserted stud. When the stud is inserted into the tire, the rubber simply contracts around the stud, in actual fact the pressure exerted by the rubber wants to squeeze the stud out of the hole. When the tire is run, the stud will cut the rubber around the base of the stud, the idea is you will end up with a "t" shaped hole, instead of just a cylinder.

It's my opinion that in any tire you have one good shot at stud retention.... The first time the stud is inserted. Once a stud comes out of that pocket the chances of a new stud staying are greatly diminished. Every effort should be taken to maximize the chances of the original stud staying put..

- Quickly reeming the stud hole (burn out mold release)

- Then a couple drops of adhesive

- Some run in (should be done on track in practice, just ride the outside bank at a slow pace...or add a scheduled session during lunch hour, you dont want the opp finding out people are flat towing their ice racers around town on stud tires)

Also fwiw...I very nearly came back this year to compete, but seeing the results from the first weekend I chose to sit back and watch...

Chris has it right.

1) chose a tire with a clear studding block away from sipes.

2) chose a tire with a range of stud offset (scratch pattern).

The Champiro IcePro meet the tire requirements and comes in a full
range of sizes, the IcePro 2 starts at 15 inches.

3) bedding will cut the base into the bottem of the stud hole. (no theory,
fact) (multi flange studs cut rings in the hole)

4) reaming the hole with a dremmel or air die grinder burns the release agent
of the hole and the exposed rubber has a better purchase on the glue.

5) Use Black Max or Crazy glue, there is no issue of shucking studs, the
bedding in brakes the tension in the rubber at the bottem of the hole and
produces a grove to hold the seat.

6) Unmodified pin street studs are designed to wear, and are not intended, or
suited for several seasons of ice racing.

Over the Years I have heard many times in racing,

1) we never have the money or time to do it properly the first time
but we find the time and money to do it better the second time.

2) as a racer you want it Fast, Reliable, Cheap
Chose two.
Its beter to go for Fast, Reliable, and reasonable.

Peter Austin

P.S. I hope to be in Minden sometime this weekend, I have a meeting with Brad at Brandon tire on another subject on Friday. I have a selection of the new Ice racing screws used in Quebec that may be a solution for the Stud class.

[2StrokeAddict]

Hankook is launching the Replacement to the W409 for next season. It is called the W419. wouldnt be able to do any testing this year though. Very nice looking tire and they are coming with re-inforced stud pockets.

[andrey7474]

Originally Posted by FatAndy181

Anything else to suggest to Andrey so he can buy something and put it on the ice?

already ordered a set of rc01 and not going to buy anything else. i want to do everything properly and see how they work. in addition, we will be able to compare new saulins vs new rc01s in ss4.

[Champ98]

Originally Posted by FatAndy181

-Champiro looks to have pretty decent sizes. Wonder what pin it uses. You look at this one Tom?

Looked at this one today at the store, it is pinned for a TSMI 12 so a thirteen should look sweet in it ...

Made a call to a buddy that shot a thirteen into a road hazard return, and it sounds like our spec protrusion ...

[FatAndy181]

Originally Posted by Champ98

Looked at this one today at the store, it is pinned for a TSMI 12 so a thirteen should look sweet in it ...

Made a call to a buddy that shot a thirteen into a road hazard return, and it sounds like our spec protrusion ...

Maybe Dan would be interested in trying this one. I don`t have a contact for him but maybe you could poke him and see what he thinks.

I`ve got some rims into a local shop to have Sailuns put on. Should have them in my hands tomorrrow.

[max attack]

I dropped my Manitoba buddy a line regarding the ice pro,while they tried pretty much every tire that had a stud pocket the the Champiro wasn't one simply because once they tried the sailun they figured their search was over.

[uptownguy]

Originally Posted by Champ98

Peter, I would choose wisely what you present this weekend, and to who.

My hands are tied to a track wear issue. If a Sailun with a rally stud in a 155/80/13 won't cut it nothing much else would ...

My intent is to prepare a set of tires to your current rules, except with a different tire. Would a set of 13" of 14" be best for evaluation.

Could some one give me the current stud diameter and planned maximum protrusion.

I am looking for a tire with 13" to 16" availability at a non premium price point.

Peter Austin
Montreal

[shanehutton]

14" tire on 4x100 wheel (aprx 175/65) diameter would fit a number of cars. In various drivetrain configurations

Studs are currently 1 size over the recommended for the tire (i.e a #13 in a #12 tire)

The exact stud we are using is this one. http://www.brunowessel.com/catalog/i...item&itemid=19

[uptownguy]

Originally Posted by shanehutton

14" tire on 4x100 wheel (aprx 175/65) diameter would fit a number of cars. In various drivetrain configurations

Studs are currently 1 size over the recommended for the tire (i.e a #13 in a #12 tire)

The exact stud we are using is this one. http://www.brunowessel.com/catalog/i...item&itemid=19

I need to know the diameter of the stud and the intended maximum protrusion.

Thanks
Peter Austin

[FatAndy181]

I believe the shaft diameter 4.8mm, with a desired protrusion of 1mm. Base of the stud is 8.8mm in diameter.

[shanehutton]

Based on the info on the Bruno Wessel link:

Length (MM) 12
Head Diameter (MM) 8.7
Shaft Diameter (MM) 4.4
Pin Length (MM) 5.2