Score another one for the good guys (sorry Steve)

[StewPiddass]

http://www.wheels.ca/article/asset/167046

[gatherer]

if I had way too much time on my hands (which I don't) I'd make up a sign for the next time I saw them doing their radar trap and then park in a parking lot and stand at the sid eof the road with it .... I'm sure I'd be charged with distracting drivers or something like that. but then again I don't have too much time on my hands.

[TFB]

Just curious, but would you also believe in flashing your headlights to warn impaired drivers, unlicensed, uninsured, or joyriders in stolen cars of police presence ahead?

[StewPiddass]

Originally Posted by TFB

Just curious, but would you also believe in flashing your headlights to warn impaired drivers, unlicensed, uninsured, or joyriders in stolen cars of police presence ahead?

If the goal is actually to slow people down and not to collect revenue by tickets then it really shouldn't matter how they slowed down should it?...

[ScotcH]

Originally Posted by TFB

Just curious, but would you also believe in flashing your headlights to warn impaired drivers, unlicensed, uninsured, or joyriders in stolen cars of police presence ahead?

You cannot fix any of that during your drive .... speeding can be fixed by slowing down. If the intent of speed traps is really making people slow down, and not the cash grab that we all know it is, then as stated in teh article, the dude was just helping out. People slow down ... everyone is happy

[TFB]

Originally Posted by ScotcH

You cannot fix any of that during your drive .... speeding can be fixed by slowing down. If the intent of speed traps is really making people slow down, and not the cash grab that we all know it is, then as stated in teh article, the dude was just helping out. People slow down ... everyone is happy

No, you can't "fix that" on your end, but should you actively "just help out" such impaired/insuranceless/licenceless/thieving people avoid the police?

Take another tack - you can help stop theft by warning a shoplifter that store security is watching them. Is that an ethical thing to do?

[Keith-02Accord]

My dad was charged with Obstruction of Justice under the criminal code for doing exactly what was talked about in the article. This was a very long time ago...I think late 70's, early 80's at the latest.

Anyway, he went to court, got the officer to say the purpose of radar is to slow down speeders. My dad said to the judge, I can go up and down every street in Ontario, flashing my lights and guarantee, every person speeding will slow down. Judge threw out the charges.

[Keith-02Accord]

Originally Posted by TFB

No, you can't "fix that" on your end, but should you actively "just help out" such impaired/insuranceless/licenceless/thieving people avoid the police?

Take another tack - you can help stop theft by warning a shoplifter that store security is watching them. Is that an ethical thing to do?

But it's ethical for an officer to charge somebody for something that's not even illegal right???

And on top of that, 99.9999999999999999999999999% of the people that would be flashed would be none of those things. And besides, if somebody is driving a stolen vehicle, unless they are being chased, they are probably driving it within all traffic laws anyway so as not to draw attention to themseleves and if they go through a radar trap they wouldn't be pulled over anyways.

Plus, in your example, most places with Security Cameras state that people coming into the premises are under surveillance.

[gatherer]

Originally Posted by TFB

No, you can't "fix that" on your end, but should you actively "just help out" such impaired/insuranceless/licenceless/thieving people avoid the police?

Take another tack - you can help stop theft by warning a shoplifter that store security is watching them. Is that an ethical thing to do?

\
hey if I was going to take a candy bar out of a store without paying for it and some other customer told me I was being watched .. I'd probably leave that candy bar on the shelf...

if I go into the local convience store and I see a kid trying to sneak something while I'm walking to the back for milk I'll mention something .. just to get them to think twice... I see nothing wrong with that.

[TFB]

Originally Posted by Keith-02Accord

But it's ethical for an officer to charge somebody for something that's not even illegal right???

And on top of that, 99.9999999999999999999999999% of the people that would be flashed would be none of those things.

Plus, in your example, most places with Security Cameras state that people coming into the premises are under surveillance.

Oh? 99.9999999999999999999999999%? You might want to rethink that. Traffic stops result in the detection of an astonishing high number of exactly such offences. They also account for uncovering many recognizance/bail/probation/parole violators, and drug and weapons offences.

My other example assumes nothing with respect to security cameras and signs warning of such - it could just as easily apply to a small mom and pop store with no surveillance.

Besides, that sidesteps the issue - is it ethical and in the public interest to warn others who are committing or about to commit an illegal act that someone is watching them, so as to help them avoid the legal consequences of that illegal act?

[TFB]

Originally Posted by gatherer

\
hey if I was going to take a candy bar out of a store without paying for it and some other customer told me I was being watched .. I'd probably leave that candy bar on the shelf...

if I go into the local convience store and I see a kid trying to sneak something while I'm walking to the back for milk I'll mention something .. just to get them to think twice... I see nothing wrong with that.

Tell you what, I need some jewelery but don't want to pay the price. Will you come act as my lookout?

[finboy]

guess Brad doesn't watch his own show..

Jim Kenzie on Kenzies corner delt with the same issue i think it was at a fishing hole in the Avenue road bypass area

he was charged with section 169

169. (1) Despite section 168, highbeam headlamps that produce alternating flashes of white light may be used by a public utility emergency vehicle while responding to an emergency and by an emergency vehicle as defined in subsection 144 (1). R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 169 (1).

he contested that his light do NOT FLASH in an alternating sequence


he was still found guilty!

if he took the time and appealed it.. he would have been found not guilty

[thgear]

maybe this would be a good time for random spot checks to actualy be implemented

like i said in the other thread, using silly low tier speeding laws to pull people over HOPING to find the driver without insurance, carying guns or drugs is a very backwards approach to crime prevention.

[ScotcH]

Originally Posted by TFB

Besides, that sidesteps the issue - is it ethical and in the public interest to warn others who are committing or about to commit an illegal act that someone is watching them, so as to help them avoid the legal consequences of that illegal act?

This is a stupid argument. I would hope that the point of security cameras and such is DETERENCE first and foremost. If you warn someone, and as a result they don't steal, is that not the same thing? The end result is that the dude does not steal (or in the real case, slows down). This is beneficial to all, except of course the loss of funding for the City. Of course I would not have any issues with this whatsoever.

[gatherer]

Originally Posted by TFB

Tell you what, I need some jewelery but don't want to pay the price. Will you come act as my lookout?

that doesn't make any sense ... seriously if I walked into my local convience store (which the clerk happens to be a friend) and I'm at the back of the store and notice someone pocketing stuff I would most likely say "Hey you know they got cameras and mirrors in Here and can see that your placing that in your pocket" or I might say "I sure hope your going to pay for that"

with your convience store situation, the person inside the store hasn't committed a crime ... it's not a crime to place something in your pocket .. it is a crime to leave a store or place of business without paying for something. So long as they are in the store they haven't committed a crime.

Now with the radar trap that I've just seen as I travel down the road I might flash at the first few people I see .. why? because while they might be the terrible criminals you make them out to be, chances are they are just like everyone else in this world, normal average people, who happen to be travelling above the speed limit.

I like to believe that I live in a world where the average motorist that speeds isn't a hardened criminal.

Note: yes I have this belief even after having my car stolen 6 weeks ago.

Also if the Police were intent on catching all those hardened car robbing theives out there at traffic stops and radar traps, they'd setup the radar traps with the cameras they have on some police vehicles to scan plates and check the database. hey if the 407 can get people with Plate recognizing cameras why can't the police use that to catch car thieves that might decide they are going to drive under the limit to avoid the radar gun.