just starting out, what car to race?

[mytzlflick]

I have never been racing before so I'm a little lost, I would like to run an older model camaro, I understand how they work and the parts are cheap. will it fit into a class? will it be competitive in that class?
how much does it cost to run anyways? whats it like?

sorry if I'm a little lost but I have no idea what i am getting into, all I have is the desire to race.

[Shaman]

Welcome to Solo 1.

These are questions that we all ask: can my car be competitive?

Is the car modified? That would help us help you.

[ctenche]

Tell us some more about your car. What year and trim level is it? Have you done any mods to it?

[mytzlflick]

I don't have the car yet actually, I am going on tour to bosnia this year so I will be setting it up next winter for the 2002 season.
I will be looking for a second generation camaro or firebird, preferably a base model car with a 350 4-speed setup.
I will do whatever modifications I can get away with and still fit into the slowest catagory I can, I'd like to race it a season before I get carried away building it to go faster, no point in sinking a lot of money into something i might not like driving.

[Theo]

A second gen Camaro. That's cool, but it can be difficult finding anything race worthy that's more than 10 years old. It can be done but you'll pay a premium for a good clean car. It's a bit on the heavy side too, but I know they can be raced.

Here are some things to keep in mind with a older car. You'll find many of the suspension bits will be worn. If you replace them with mostly stock components, you can stay in a stock (slower) class.

Most people choose to replace worn parts with better aftermarket parts. Aftermarket stuff will put you into higher (faster) classes.

That said, you can buy a later model Camero with a 305, or Mustang 302 for relativly cheap and race that.
You'll still have to replace stuff, but it's a bit newer, and the suspension will be a bit more sorted out than an older car.

Some people may argue this, but a good car to learn is an Import. I have a bias towards Hondas, but there are many decent cheap, race worth imports out there.

An Integra, or a Civic are fun to drive, reliable, and handle well in stock form. But if you're a V8 guy, there's not a chance of you buying a 4-banger. Well I did, but that's just me.

The most important thing to remember is that the car isn't the focal point. It's the driving. You'll be so consumed with becoming a better driver, the car (as long as it's running relaiably) takes a back seat.

Damn I'm long winded. I'll shut up now.

It's great that you're interested. Hope to see you at the track.

BTW - Good luck in the Balkans!

[mytzlflick]

I don't mind old, I have already factored int he price of rebuilding suspension and all.
thing is I want a car I can move up in with minimal cash input.
I have a bmw 318i now, I thought about racing it but the cost of crashing is outrageous, the camaro has alot of parts cheap, heck i can buy three cars for what i in the bmw

[Shaman]

Go to http://www.globalwest.net/

Put the suspension pieces on, call GW and ask what else they recommend (I'm guessing subframe connectors, etc.) and go into the SS class.

Put on a less restrictive air breather, make sure the exhaust is as restriction free as you can make it without breaking class, and... drive well!

Make sure you read the Solo rules and figure out what you can do with points to stay in that class. #1 on my list would be a camshaft... the stock camshaft is pre-smoothed... You can get a lot more out of that motor with that modification alone.

[Dave Barker]

2nd gen . heavy and bad . 3rd gen not bad but unless you have a 1LE car you would be better with a Mustang ( been there , owned one and raced one ). 4 th gen definitely better but runs in a higher class and costs more. I'm not sure with these good rear drive cars why you would want a front driver . The only way to make them interesting is to modify them enough to end up in a higher class although they are reliable .

[Shaman]

Anything with more power breaks more parts. That's just the way it seems to be.

[ADAM]

i would say that other than the power factor that the camaros or firebirds or mustangs bring, they are really not very good track vehicles...they are heavy, and the older models have outdated suspensions.... drive behind one in a nimble import and you will see how easy it is to eat them up in the corners....but when that v8 starts breathing on the straight...watch out.....

your bmw 3 series would be an excellent car to field...

[Shaman]

I dunno, Adam. When we see an small, nimble FWD import turn 56s on the DDT, then maybe I'll own one.

I regularly eat up the little imports through the corners. The cars that give me more trouble are the FDs (3rd gen RX7) and other cars which have power to get out of the corner. What you might see is eating up the Camaro in the braking zone a bit, and through the early part of the turn, but at the apex they storm away...

The point being: there's more than one formula to taking corners quickly. Ed Luce gives me crap for braking so late with the smaller cars and scaring them off the track... Camaros reward a slow-in, fast-out, rotate-under-power methodology, while the low-powered FWD cars favour a smoother fast-in, maintain-speed, rotate-and-scrub method. Both work. Handling can be an aspect of torque!

I'd own an old early-70s 240Z with an worked aluminum smallblock, a Lancer Evo or a 3rd gen RX7, though. Maybe a 1G Talon AWD, and if I could afford it, an AWD Porsche 911. Yummy imports there, and not FWD.

FWIW, I'll be really ticked if I don't turn a 55.x on DDT this year ... I'm really hoping we'll run at least one day of the same reverse perimiter as we did last year. That was awesome fun, AFAIC.

[ADAM]

i agree, i would never own a FWD import...i can't stand driving a FWD car....
i would get a 4WD for sure like a talon though

i guess i have never been a fan of v8 power....although i always wanted a 71' fastback mustang with a 351 cleveland...

in most cases the lighter car will come out ahead...and with todays technology...there is replacement for displacement...as long as you move the same amount of air...the smaller lighter motor will always win..

[Shaman]

I disagree vehemently.

The very fastest tube-framed, forced-induction 2JZ (Supra) and Skyline motored cars are running high sixes in the 1/4 mile today. Large displacement naturally aspirated V8s are pushing production-based chassis to 6.60s today with rules that don't allow them to go faster! That's not replacement for displacement at all... in fact, the direct parallel to those small-displacement engines is North American Funny Cars, which have touched high three second quarter miles. Those cars are so fast that they put up with 900hp parasitic losses from supercharging because they honestly don't want to go any faster.

There truly is no replacement for displacement. There is only catching up for a little while because the larger motor isn't as modified.

I have this argument a lot. The other issue is that all that turbo equipment adds weight, as does the overbuilt block, etc. required to survive overboost conditions if something goes wrong (with stock turbo systems, that is). A 300ZX, 3000GT, Supra Turbo are all significantly (350+ pounds) heavier than a C5 Corvette while having half the displacement. All three are heavier than my Firebird, as a matter of fact. Perry's Mustang is as light, and probably lighter than, Blair + Victor's Talons with an engine almost three times the displacement.

Incidentally, a C5 hardtop 'vette with a single turbo system at 8.5# of boost weighs under 3300 pounds and will push approximately 625rwhp (720hp crank) very reliably. This is a faster package than the one (one of the original turbo LS1s) that Lingenfelter drove to 226mph! The fastest "top secret, 1200hp" Skyline has only managed 203mph, which ARE's 2000 C5 entry into the Silver State Challenge almost touched with 198mph - a 6.6L LS1 naturally aspirated and fully streetable.

P.S. I remember having this same argument this summer while having lunch and sitting on Blair's trailer at the DDT. That was the day I ran a 56.8 with my car, and the next day I ran a 56.234. My car is well over 3600 pounds with me in it (probably 3700) and has full interior, no weight reduction to speak of and was on stock-sized tires (275/40). You might want to have a look where all the heavy big-motor ASP cars were in the pecking order that weekend, on a track that is nearly impossible to get real benefit from big horsepower on.

[ADAM]

ok...but lets get away from what exists to the theory behind it...

power is based on how much fuel you can burn...which is based on how much air you can get into the engine....

so...if you are able to burn equal amounts of fuel in a 1litre engine as you would in a 8l engine....while the 1l engine weighs 100lbs and the 8l engine wieghs 800lbs....the 1l engine will always win.....

because...we can change the displacement of the engine while still making the same amount of power

but we cannot change the laws of physics in regards to the MASS of the engine...that is the fixed portion here and a bigger engine using the same materials as a smaller engine will always weigh more....and that is the key on why smaller displacement engines in theory will always be better....

now you say that will never exist......well what if.....

someone makes 2l engine... that has ceramic piston sleeves...with titanium block, titanium rods, valves...head ect..that can withstand 100psi boost...runs on oxgenated fuel...it could create 5000hp.....mabey more

now do the same with the 8l v8...you might get 20000hp......

but once you reach the level where adhestion to the road becomes the issue(tires)........MASS will always win over...and i bet in the next 10 years you will see in the NHRA a small displacement motor taking over...because of the above reasons......given equal traction the car with less mass will always be able to acclerate harder....

please advise if my thoery is wrong

[ADAM]

sorry 1 more important point as well......

an 8cyl engine can NEVER match the frictional losses that a 4cyl has...thats another good reason...