Question about the Municipal Election(Toronto)

[twinch]

Hey everyone. This is going to be a long post. As most gtaers know, Rob Ford was elected mayor. Fine I've accepted it, and personally have come to the conclusion that nothing will truly change in the whole scheme of things whether it was him, Smitherman, or Pantalone, council and the provincial gov't have the true power, but I do have a question.

I don't judge, and I find that the folks on this forum are some of the most respectful, and that is why I ask this question here (because on the political forums, I'm a hippy tree hugger leftist who amounts to nothing and only creates jobs to the grow ops, and I get no answers there). I'm not easily offended, and I would normally talk to people about this, but I have yet to meet a Ford supporter in my circle of friends or workplace colleagues.

I didn't agree with 95% of Rob Ford's platform, but, moreover, I could never vote for someone who seemed so closed minded. I need to understand how Rob Ford got voted in. Was it that people outside of the downtown core truly accept Rob Ford as a great leader, or was it that he was just saying the right things to the right people, or was it people voting against Smitherman and not really voting for Ford? I just don't understand how someone who has said so many (and I may be walking on a knifes' edge here) bigoted and racist comments, who truly seems a bit ignorant, socially acceptable for the 50's, not for 2010.

Here are some of the instances that I personally heard, or read in newspapers.

“We can’t even deal with the 2.5 million people in this city. I think it’s more important that we take care of the people now before we start bringing in more.” - This seems a bit like he doesn't want any more immigrants in Toronto. Wrong city to be mayor of considering the immigrant population and how much they bring into the economy.

After Mr. Ford’s wife, Renata, calls police to their home, Mr. Ford is arrested and charged with assaulting her and uttering a death threat. - THe charges were dropped, but something shady must have happened for his wife to call the cops on him.

During a council debate over holiday shopping, Mr. Ford said: “Those Oriental people work like dogs. … They’re slowly taking over - Now that's just plain racist to me.

He supported a reverends ideologies about being against gay marriage. - I think Rob is in the wrong city if he is against this considering Toronto is one of the hubs for the gay rights movements.

When I was listening to one of the debates, the subject of the Driveway by-klaw came up about how many cars a Torontonian is allowed to have in his driveway. Rob Ford voted "yes" for this by law but stated he was against it and would change it if voted in. Smitherman brought this up and Ford stated that the by-law report was 5000 pages and didn't have time to go through it. Yet he voted "yes" for something he had no idea what it was. Doesn't this show incompetance? If he doesn't have time to read it, shouldn't one of his staff go through it and have Mr. Ford up to speed?

At a council budget debate he stated" Well, no wonder. Roads are built for buses, cars and trucks. Not for people on bikes. And my heart bleeds for them when I hear someone gets killed, but it’s their own fault at the end of the day" - Yes roads in most places are for cars, but in the inner city roads have to be shared with bikes. Bikers can't ride on the sidewalk where pedestrians are.

In 2006 at another budget debate Rob stated “If you’re not doing needles and you’re not gay, you won't get AIDS, probably.” - ?!? I laugh at this statement but it's because I'm so flabbergasted he said this ignorant statement that seemed it was from the late 80's.

Anyways, sorry for such a long message, I'm just completely lost as to why or how Rob Ford got the vote. Was it the E-health scandal for Smitherman that did it and the answer is as simple as that? Was it just because Rob Ford was in most of the media reports here, so people knew his name?

Ack...this is driving me nuts! I am desperately craving some racing so I don't fixate on such things.

[thgear]

You don't have to be nice, or even pleasant, to run a tight ship.

Being politically correct has been a growing obstacle in getting things done. Trying to appeal to everyone will not lead to progress.


“We can’t even deal with the 2.5 million people in this city. I think it’s more important that we take care of the people now before we start bringing in more.” - This seems a bit like he doesn't want any more immigrants in Toronto. Wrong city to be mayor of considering the immigrant population and how much they bring into the economy.

seems? There you go being PC. Yes that is exactly what it means. Marginal utility. Canada is a big place, you don't all have to jam into one place.

With more people come more expenditures, which offsets any resulting economic gain.


At a council budget debate he stated" Well, no wonder. Roads are built for buses, cars and trucks. Not for people on bikes. And my heart bleeds for them when I hear someone gets killed, but it’s their own fault at the end of the day" - Yes roads in most places are for cars, but in the inner city roads have to be shared with bikes. Bikers can't ride on the sidewalk where pedestrians are.

Have you been to Amsterdam or Paris? The bike lane infrastructure of Toronto is a downright embarrassment compared to those cities. Not to mention the general culture. When I got off the train at Amsterdam the first tourist map i picked up had locations of places where i could rent a bike. Everyone was on a bike.

When i was in Brugge, there was a lot next to the train station where lost and get this, illegally parked bikes would end up. People would come to pick them up and pay their fines!




I do not see it happening, Ford's alternative is the best possible course of action given the existing infrastructure. Our city was not built with bikes in mind.

This is what a bike lane should look like..




WHERE are you going to build such a thing in Toronto, there is barely enough space for pedestrians and cars.





During a council debate over holiday shopping, Mr. Ford said: “Those Oriental people work like dogs. … They’re slowly taking over - Now that's just plain racist to me.

Yes it is racist, but when you consider the fact that the majority of the GTA is comprised of "minorities", you cant deny the truth of that claim. (I am an immigrant in case that matters).


He supported a reverends ideologies about being against gay marriage. - I think Rob is in the wrong city if he is against this considering Toronto is one of the hubs for the gay rights movements.

There you go with the PC'ism. Okay so he does not like gays, is he going to deport them to San Fran? No. Gay Rights is not a municipal responsibility. Ford is not going to close down Church street.



you also have to ask yourself this, Canada is one of the more socialistic countries in the world, but ask the average canadian what he thinks of SOCIALISM, or dare i say, COMMUNISM, and they get all negative on you and bring up the Russians

What Ford is doing is eliminating some of that social funding that he finds unnecessary.

Whether that is a good thing we will have to see.

Plus there is a multitude of little things that goes on in politics that I most certainly cant grasp, but Ford seems to have a different way to look at many of them. A paradigm shift is long over due, i believe.

[twinch]

Finally an answer worth listening to. Thank you. I just needed to know the mind frame of the people who voted for Ford, because I could not understand why people voted for him. When I asked these questions on forums people would get all huffy because I wanted to know why they voted the way they did.
I see your points and understand why people would vote for such things. I still don't agree with some of your points. I belief that we needed a mayor who represented Toronto both locally and internationally, and unfortunately I don't believe he will represent Toronto on the international scale. He defiately needs some classes in public speaking and thinking on his toes.

I am glad you answered the question without resorting to calling me names and such with no answers at all.

[thgear]

Originally Posted by twinch

Finally an answer worth listening to. Thank you. I just needed to know the mind frame of the people who voted for Ford, because I could not understand why people voted for him. When I asked these questions on forums people would get all huffy because I wanted to know why they voted the way they did.
I see your points and understand why people would vote for such things. I still don't agree with some of your points. I belief that we needed a mayor who represented Toronto both locally and internationally, and unfortunately I don't believe he will represent Toronto on the international scale. He defiately needs some classes in public speaking and thinking on his toes.

I am glad you answered the question without resorting to calling me names and such with no answers at all.

why do you feel that the Mayor of a metropolis has to be the one responsible for representing Toronto internationally? We have whole committees for that.

[ONdriver]

One thing I noticed in the post election interviews:
Ford comes across with genuine enthusiasm for the challenges that lay before him.
Smitherman comes across like just another polished politician!

[twinch]

I guess it's true that their are other people who deal with international delegates but sometimes the mayor is the one who they deal with for press.

Actually when I was listening John Tory talking to Ford, ford seemed pretty personable and laid back, but that was only when they were talking casually about "stuff". Smitherman does seem like a trained politician.

[G-ForceJunkie]

In your post it seems you were looking for reasons to NOT vote for someone. Look, and you will find. If all you have on Ford is some stuff he said, and one regrettable vote, that makes him 10x better than the other candidates. Remember, we didn't vote for perfect candidates, we voted for the best available option.

Originally Posted by 680 News

TORONTO, Ont. - Doug Ford, the newly elected councillor in Ward 2 and the mayor elect's brother, plans to donate his salary over the next four years to community groups in need.

City councillors make a base salary of approximately $99,000 per year.

The seat in Ward 2 (Etobicoke North) was vacated by his brother when he decided to run for mayor.

Shows some insight into the character of the Ford family, IMO.

[RedRabbit Racer]

Ford is the only one of the three who understands you cant give absolutely everything to every one who asks for it all the time just so you dont risk losing a vote. the taxpayers cant afford to keep paying paying for all the pet projects of city council and they made that clear.

[DEK]

TWINCH, so why are you "picking" on Rob Ford ? Hazel in Mississauga got 83 % !!! of the cast ballots despite the "smell" of a scandal.
Let me give you my opinion of the top 3 in the Toronto Mayor run. George was responsible for the $1 Billion in Provincial Ehealth contracts, yeah I know, someone else took the fall, Pantalone says more of the same, yikes. You guess why Rob Ford won when the mantra of his campaign was "Respect for the tax payers' money" Did you hear the one about the City of Toronto credit cards ?(this is my recollection of the story) Apparently there are 1200 credit cards issued to I presume City of Toronto "employees". Rob asks, as a Councillor, "who has these cards?", reply "Sorry, that's confidential." Apparently more than a MILLION per year is charged to these cards. Rob Ford asks, "What's being charged to these cards ?" Reply, "Sorry, that's confidential. " And you have to ask why someone with the mantra, "Respect for the tax payers' money" got elected ????

DAVE KING
MY choices for Mayor and local Councillor were BOTH elected !!!!

Let's get back to chatting about Motor Racing Stuff !!!!!!!!!!!

[thgear]

was reading more of the recent news,

Travis, it is basically like this.

Our previous municipal administrative infrastructure has been growing fat over the years without anyone in particular noticing the effects. One wrong/dubious contract a year by each member adds up over time. Write off this, write off that. A little bonus money here, a long term promise there. Then the accountants come in and are like "what the **** guys, who had a bachelor party on a plane made of naked women?"

What Ford wants to achieve is a revision of how these things work at city hall, so that people don't circumvent the system without tipping off at least 20 other people who really have no vested interest in their business.

And even if Ford's tactics are not all to successful as a result of themselves, given the current turnover of the cabinet, the amount of fresh faces will hamper any under-dealings simply because it is much harder to be shady when you don't have friends around you that will look the other way.

[twinch]

I actually did vote against Ford rather than for Smitherman's platform because honestly, the person I wanted dropped out, and I was not happy with most of the candidates. I didn't like 95% of Rob Ford's platform, I didn't like Pantalone because well, he's Miller, and I didn't like 65% of Smeitherman's platform At least my councillor I voted for got in.

Dek, no disrespect though, this is the general discussion section so really anything can be discussed here, but your comment did make me think about something, and it is about cars (not racing though). So I am done talking about the election results.

You can tell a lot about a person's character by what they drive. I wonder what each of the top candidates drive?

My guess (and these are only guesses because finding info on what they each drive is hard to come by)...
Smitherman drives either a Lincoln Towncar or a ridiculous SUV.
Ford drives a Chrysler, top of the line one though.
Pantalone drives a BMW, probably a 6 or 7 series.
Thompson drives a Honda CRV or a Lexus SUV.
Rossi drives a Lexus, chrome rims, blacked out windows.

Yes I realize some people are going to think this is a pointless excercise, and a waste of bandwidth, but hell, the racing season is over and we need to keep these forums active going over the winter season.

[twinch]

thgear, I just saw your post.

I really do hope I was mistaken and Ford does help with getting finances back in order, and helps make Toronto a great city that it deserves to be. Having so many new councillors I believe will help. As a side note, did you hear how much the outgoing councillors are getting on severence, and even the ones that decided not to run will get it as well?!? I totally agree that spending, and back room deals, and shady stuff was going on and I hated city hall for that. I hated all these ridiculous taxes that were forced on us all the while councillors had so many perks, including all those 1200 credit cards. That's why I am so happy that Pantalone did not get voted in.

Like you basically mentioned before, time will tell how things pan out.

Oh by the way, that pic of the bike lanes you posted, saweet riding. Now that I wish we had here.

[ADAM]

Ford won very simply because he will create some fiscal responsibility.

Toronto is on the verge of financial failure..they city in its current state is not financially sustainable..hence its crazy deficit.

Programs and services must be cut as well as wages..there are no other options other than raising taxes further.

Ford was seen to be the man to do the cutting

[thgear]

Originally Posted by twinch

thgear, I just saw your post.

I really do hope I was mistaken and Ford does help with getting finances back in order, and helps make Toronto a great city that it deserves to be. Having so many new councillors I believe will help. As a side note, did you hear how much the outgoing councillors are getting on severence, and even the ones that decided not to run will get it as well?!? I totally agree that spending, and back room deals, and shady stuff was going on and I hated city hall for that. I hated all these ridiculous taxes that were forced on us all the while councillors had so many perks, including all those 1200 credit cards. That's why I am so happy that Pantalone did not get voted in.

Like you basically mentioned before, time will tell how things pan out.

Oh by the way, that pic of the bike lanes you posted, saweet riding. Now that I wish we had here.

Yes i did read that article, but things like severance packages are *usually* budgeted and accrued over time, so it's not like it came out of left field.

[twinch]

I just can't believe that that was even in the contract? I knew about and understand if you are not voted back in you should get some sort of compensation, but if you decide to not run? That I had no idea about. Who gets a contract like that anywhere else?