CNAC and Ont Region

[Marc]

Hello all, I just heard the grape vine that Ont Region Solo 2 will be running a variation of the CNAC rules this summer but the Quebec Region is going to run SCCA rules. Is this correct? I thought all of Canada was being pressurred into 1 set of SOLO2 rules for all regions.

[Nissan Racer]

Since when has Quebec ever considered itself part of Canada?

[Marc]

I agree, but I am still not very happy with this up and coming rule changes. Whatching fellow competitors get bumped up into classes in which they do not have a hope of being competitive in because some of the simple mods they did are now illegal.

[Marsh]

Originally posted by Marc
I agree, but I am still not very happy with this up and coming rule changes. Whatching fellow competitors get bumped up into classes in which they do not have a hope of being competitive in because some of the simple mods they did are now illegal.

Hey Marc. The discussion has been going on a long time now. I'm surprised you guys haven't heard about it yet. Last year I thought it was going to happen for 2003.

[gatherer]

for the nationals in Montreal they will be using CNAC rules right?

[Marc]

Originally posted by Marsh
Hey Marc. The discussion has been going on a long time now. I'm surprised you guys haven't heard about it yet. Last year I thought it was going to happen for 2003.

I've been kind of busy and was out of the loop for a while re the rule changes. Thought it was just an ugly rumour. I'm getting tired of people changing the entire rule book every 5 yrs. We need continuity like the SCCA has. You could prep your car and run for many years with only minor tweaks as time goes on, not have to undo your car to stay in a class or mod it up some more to try to keep up.
What do you think of this new set of rules?

[tanney]

I'm getting tired of people changing the entire rule book every 5 yrs. We need continuity like the SCCA has

This is a BIG step towards just that......

Oh and you may want to send a letter to every automobile manufacturer in the world voicing your displeasure with the fact that they keep releasing new cars that are not in the current rule book, adding factory mods etc.......

[Marc]

Originally posted by tanney
Oh and you may want to send a letter to every automobile manufacturer in the world voicing your displeasure with the fact that they keep releasing new cars that are not in the current rule book, adding factory mods etc.......

I grant you that classing cars has always been a tough task.
But I just got a copy of the new rule book for 2004 and we are finding that it is going to blow alot of competitors minds when they realize that they are no longer in SS but now in SP! These are major changes which will have a great impact on our sport. Lets hope we do not scare them away.
Why do we have to change the fundamental rule book to bend to the CNAC rules. Can they not adapt to our system?

[tanney]

Why do we have to change the fundamental rule book to bend to the CNAC rules. Can they not adapt to our system?

First, most other regions in Canada are using the CNAC rules or at least a minor variation (including Quebec).

Second, ASN Canada FIA MAY require all regions to run under one rule set to keep better track of insurance related issues.

I am sure that everyone understands the problems with insurance in our post Sept 11th climate.... the insuarnce companies are looking for ANYTHING to deny coverage or substantially increase premiums.

I am trying to be pro-active by moving in the CNAC direction before being told to and then having no where to go and no control over it.

I am hoping that all competitors, whether they like the changes or not, will except the coming changes. Yes there have been a number of comments that slightly modded cars will be bumped into SP classes because of things like short shifters for the regional rules, but each club will have the option of changing car classifications and mod levels for "Club Events" (at least this year).

I am trying to make a smooth transition in the next two years that may or may not work and I do realize that there are going to be people who won't like the changes and may not come out because of them. That will be the community's loss, but hopefully only a temporary loss.

Not what you wnat to hear, but.....

[Gord]

Originally posted by tanney

I am hoping that all competitors, whether they like the changes or not, will except the coming changes. Yes there have been a number of comments that slightly modded cars will be bumped into SP classes because of things like short shifters for the regional rules, but each club will have the option of changing car classifications and mod levels for "Club Events" (at least this year).

Sorry to state the obvious, but if people don't like some of the changes that are coming, and we already recognize that some things are problems (ie. short shifter on an otherwise stock car bumps you to SP), and we are suggesting that clubs can use thier own classing rules....

why not just fix the problem and be done with it?

Each club using their own classing makes things more fragmented than before, but I know we are looking at it here to fix problems like the ones stated above.

I don't think anyone (that I have heard from) has any real problems with the "rule" changes (the stuff that matters to insurance) about how events are run, etc. It is all centered around classing and mods.

-Gord

[gatherer]

Originally posted by Gord
Sorry to state the obvious, but if people don't like some of the changes that are coming, and we already recognize that some things are problems (ie. short shifter on an otherwise stock car bumps you to SP), and we are suggesting that clubs can use thier own classing rules....

why not just fix the problem and be done with it?

Each club using their own classing makes things more fragmented than before, but I know we are looking at it here to fix problems like the ones stated above.

I don't think anyone (that I have heard from) has any real problems with the "rule" changes (the stuff that matters to insurance) about how events are run, etc. It is all centered around classing and mods.

-Gord

because if we do that then those competitors that go to national competitions will have to re-prep their car for a second set of rules ... it gets complex... I've been all for a single set of rules that way I know what class I'll be in regardless of whether I race here or in Calgary or Vancouver.... or Montreal or Halifax.... so if I want to take a road trip and have some fun I can and not worry about read a second set of rules and figuring out where I fit in

[tanney]

why not just fix the problem and be done with it?

Then they won't be CNAC rules, will they.

Let's change the classification of thirty car (as suggested) allow up to forty mods to stock classes (as suggested) and listen to the complaints then........

STANDARDIZATION........... I have changed some things (why do I keep repeating myself) to allow for an easier transition for this year, but just because there are new people coming out that modded their rides for the cool factor doesn't mean the entire rule set needs to be changed for them.

If someone puts springs that are not race of performance related, should they not have to claim the spring points? Springs are springs..... a short shifter is a short shifter, a strut brace is a strut brace, etc., etc., etc.....

I don't want to come right out and say, these are the rules, live with them, but it is getting close to that.......I am trying to passify some of the requests, but some.......

[rmicroys]

Originally posted by tanney
[B]Then they won't be CNAC rules, will they.

I used to Solo2 but I road race now, so I have nothing at stake here other than looking at the sport as an outsider...

If there is a NATIONAL set of rules, why are we patching it on a regional basis, and why aren't all the regions using them as is (CNAC)?

The bandaid solution isn't "Well, the CNAC rules don't quite cut it, let's make regional versions of the CNAC rules" which don't satisfy all the clubs, so that "the clubs then can patch the Regionalized CNAC rules so that all clubs have different rules!"... so that when people go to Regional or National competitions they have to do all sorts of work on their cars or be put in strange and/or uncompetitive classes that make no sense?

Doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of having a national set of rules?

Like Gord says, fix the problem with the National rules, make the rules accommodating to help market the sport. I don't know why one would make the rules so restirictive to make Joe Rice Sticker Wannabe Racer Boy go to SP just because he has a short shifter. The National committee should have a tad more insight than that, and should be open to restructure the rules to market the sport.

Lord help us all if Canada ever decides to make a proper set of National Road Racing rules...

[Gord]

Originally posted by tanney
Then they won't be CNAC rules, will they.

I'm saying, fix the CNAC rules. If we are adopting them as a "national" ruleset, then as the largest body of slalomers in the country, Ontario should have some say in what the rules look like.

Originally posted by tanney

STANDARDIZATION........... I have changed some things (why do I keep repeating myself) to allow for an easier transition for this year, but just because there are new people coming out that modded their rides for the cool factor doesn't mean the entire rule set needs to be changed for them.

Standardization is a great thing, and something I wish we had. It doesn't however preclude a flexible ruleset that works for both experienced and novice entrants alike.

Plus my understanding of CASC's direction is to reach out to new people and promote involvement. It seems like we don't want to try to create an enviroment condusive to doing so with a lot of the anti-street car modded comments that I have been reading...

Originally posted by tanney

If someone puts springs that are not race of performance related, should they not have to claim the spring points? Springs are springs..... a short shifter is a short shifter, a strut brace is a strut brace, etc., etc., etc.....

I haven't seen anyone suggest that we have a free for all, mod as you like and still stay in stock.

Why then allow people to run R's but not a shifter? No one would ever choose the shifter over the R's, so it's not a performance reason.



-Gord

[gatherer]

Originally posted by Gord

Why then allow people to run R's but not a shifter? No one would ever choose the shifter over the R's, so it's not a performance reason.



-Gord

People that are new to the sport could have .. (and I've seen it) picked up and installed a short shifter while still riding on cheap rubber... people do make the mistake of getting a short shifter before R's .... the R's yes add alot more performance to the car ... but are we going to switch to only allowing stock rubber that comes on the car to be run.... in that case H stock class is going to very very slow this year .....

for stock classes the cars should be close to stock .... I mean that is the whole Idea isn't it? and R's are a point in the stock class for CNAC...you only get 2 points and the other one is likely taken up with different sized wheels...