Niagara Regional Police Ticket Quota.

[Dr.Smooth]

A driver in a funeral procession was ticketed by the Niagara Regional Police.

A ticket-a-day-quota may have played a role in the driver of a car that was part of a funeral procession last week getting a ticket for running a red light, the local police union says.

The way we have worded it to our officers is to say that in the course of a 12-hour shift, it is hard to believe you wouldn't see an infraction, and when they do, they are expected to issue a ticket," NRP Deputy Chief Joe Matthews said.

http://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/Art...aspx?e=3336514

[Chris Lawson]

"We measure performance in a number of ways and enforcement is just one of them," Matthews said.

[spd-dmn]

If you want your procession to run red lights, get the funeral home to opt for paid duty officers to block the intersections.


Simple enough, no?

[Rich]

The driver of the offending car nearly hit a pedestrian and so the officer felt he had to take action

[Dr.Smooth]

I think everyone is missing the point of my post........

The point I am trying to make has nothing to do with the infraction. Funeral processions often get strung out and even separated. I live within an 800m radius of 3 funeral homes. I have my travel interrupted at least once a week by a procession. If one driver decides to run a red light and almost hit someone. They should be ticketed.

What my point is, is this. There now seems to be a ticket Quota in the Niagara Region....

After years of claiming "there is no ticket quota", by police services across Canada and the United States. There now... Appears to be one in the Niagara Region.....

[Doug Stark]

No offense, but the only thing I see here that has changed is that someone in a position of management seems to have been open and real with the public about what EVERY police force does. Every traffic section in every police force use performance measurement tools to gauge employee performance.

Here is what I don't understand concerning this post; are you saying that police are staging motor vehicle infractions? I'm sure your not - so therefore you feel that they shouldn't earn their pay this way? I'm not sure what your saying. Clearly there are more traffic violations then police to catch the violations - it's just a math issue. More cars on the road then police cars.

There are actually a staggering number of accidents during funeral processions as the participants in the funeral by and large believe they have a RIGHT to drive through red lights simply because they are in a follow the leader situation. They are ill informed. The HTA does not allow for this activity. What it does allow for is for a police officer to stop at a red light and CONTROL the intersection and DIRECT participants of funerals to enter the intersection while under the direction of the police officer and safely proceed through the intersection. That is completely different then someone in mid funeral procession just rolling through the intersection without stopping and without a police officer at the intersection directing you. People have to be aware of the difference. You must stop at all red lights and not proceed until it is green. Those little funeral flags are NOT card blanch to run reds! My brother in law spent a week in a coma after being T boned on his motorcycle while doing pay duty in Toronto. Several police forces will no longer do funeral escorts because of these risks and insurance issues.

[Mike H]

"The way we have worded it to our officers is to say that in the course of a 12-hour shift, it is hard to believe you wouldn't see an infraction, and when they do, they are expected to issue a ticket," NRP Deputy Chief Joe Matthews said."

Seems to me the only thing the Deputy Chief is saying is that in a 12 hour shift every officer on patrol ought to see at least one HTA infraction....so don't come back to the station at the end of that shift having written no tickets....that's not a quota unless it's stated how many tickets you should have written. He's saying you aren't doing your job if you write no tickets.

Hell, in a half hour trip to the plaza I witness several blatant violations of the HTA.

[Travis]

Is anyone suggesting that there arn't quotas?

I remember seeing on the news a few years ago a quote by some police force spokeman saying something along the lines of "we don't have quotas. We have quotas." Since then, I've never had any doubt that there were quotas, and it doesn't matter to me which spokesman said it about what police department. Offically or not, they all have quotas.

Besides, not to defend the rediculous quota concept, but how else would a supervisor make sure his employees are doing their jobs instead of spending their time doing what they prefer to do: jaywalking from their accross-the-curb parking spot to buy a coffee?

[Chris Lawson]

Ahhhh yes, the double edge sword of police performance management. The tax payers rightfully expect an honest days work for an honest days pay (execpt when it is them that gets a ticket, or is arrested), but god forbid there be an expected number of tickets from an officer.

How does one measure the performance of a patrol officer, without using numerical values? Any suggestions (I am being sincere)? Officers are paid to enforce the laws (made by society, not them), so how can we measure their effectivness, and how do we set a standard to ensure the taxpayers hard earned dollars are being spent on employees who bring value to the community?

The problems is, the management of any business needs to set a standard of work for their employees, however if the police set a standard of work (i.e. on ticker per shift, and/or one arrest per shift) it immediately becomes a quota. Yet, the public expects their tax dollars to be spent wisely (i.e. the coffee jab above) and for the police to write tickets and enforce the law. How do we, or how should we, ensure we are getting good value for the taxpayers policing dollar?

The secret potion is for police to only write tickets to those that deserve them. In other words, only for bad offenders. In a perfect world the offender would say, "ya, I deserved that ticket" and the bystanders would say, "way to go copper!" However, one person's perception of "omg look at that" is another persons safe driving.

The is no easy answer.....but I am interested in your thoughts!

[thgear]

Chris,

There is a certain perception (at least on my part) that police officers choose to enforce zones/roads that are "easy picking"

there is a speed trap next to my house once a week catching motorists heading north on yonge that happen to go over 50kph

even though the road is clear with no traffic, so people who hit around 65-70 are gonna get pulled

what's worse is that there is a police station across the road (i can see it from my balcony), so to me it just seems like a cop who wanted a light day just walked out of the office with a scanner, set up shop, and made it back in time for lunch with a stack of tickets.

but i have only ever once saw a police officer pull someone over for running a redlight (i think it was a brain fart on the part of the motorist), otherwise i have seen countless "minor" offenses being committed right in front of a police cruiser, offenses that I personally believe cause traffic and driver aggrivation.

I have never seen major intersections enforced, a cop at a corner waving down people who do silly things.

Put a cop at Dufferin and Steeles for 8 hours, he can come home with a wheel barrel full of infractions without even bothering with a laser gun....

My perception might differ, but i rank "speeding" as the silliest of all HTA offenses. When my grandfather taught me to drive, he told me to "drive at the speed at which you can think clearly", solid advice if you ask me..

But speeding is what seems to get the most attention, while all the other little things, usually stupid little things, is what gets people into trouble. Someone causes gridlock cuz they decided to turn on a late yellow, causes one guy to panic or get angry, he does something stupid, next thing there is a tiny fender bender but because both people are idiots they get out of their cars and start arguing, and its 2 hours before the cars move. All because the person that made the late yellow turn thinks he is god of the road, and every time i see this i feel liek dragging them out of the car and beating sense into them. But Ontario looks down upon vigilantism

silly things

[Chris Lawson]

Yes, the proverbial fishing hole is a problem and one would hope that any ticket issued would address a real public safety issue rather than just issuing a ticket becuase there was a violation of the letter of the law.

I know, at least in Halton, the Justices' have a very high standard in order to get a conviction for red light. And frankly, some just won't convict on the charge, so I think officers shy away from laying that charge. Also, sometimes it's physically difficult to find a spot to observe an intersection.

I think what your are saying, and I agree, is that there is no value in issuing tickets that do not address a safety issue. I hope I captured that right?

[thgear]

Yes, precisely.

Also, as a motorist that observes poor drivers, i have no way (that i know off) to contribute to driver education, save for honking and flashing my lights, although some might take that to be road rage

I wish i could call in a driver being an idiot, but it's futile, because a) i won't be able to prove it in court, b) i can't talk and drive at the same time, and c) no one gives a ****


the fundamental problem outside of the OPP's hands, which is driver education, combined with a perception that traffic enforcement is purely for money generation, creates this disrespect for traffic enforcement and other drivers alike.

[GordRoss]

THere's a Gallagher bit (no watermelons...) where he suggested that we all have suction cup dart guns. When we saw some one driving like an A-hole we shoot their bumper.

If a cop saw 5 or more darts on your car, you could be pulled over and given a ticket for being an a--hole

[Dr.Smooth]

Originally Posted by Doug Stark

No offense, but the only thing I see here that has changed is that someone in a position of management seems to have been open and real with the public about what EVERY police force does. Every traffic section in every police force use performance measurement tools to gauge employee performance.

Here is what I don't understand concerning this post; are you saying that police are staging motor vehicle infractions? I'm sure your not - so therefore you feel that they shouldn't earn their pay this way? I'm not sure what your saying. Clearly there are more traffic violations then police to catch the violations - it's just a math issue. More cars on the road then police cars.

There are actually a staggering number of accidents during funeral processions as the participants in the funeral by and large believe they have a RIGHT to drive through red lights simply because they are in a follow the leader situation. They are ill informed. The HTA does not allow for this activity. What it does allow for is for a police officer to stop at a red light and CONTROL the intersection and DIRECT participants of funerals to enter the intersection while under the direction of the police officer and safely proceed through the intersection. That is completely different then someone in mid funeral procession just rolling through the intersection without stopping and without a police officer at the intersection directing you. People have to be aware of the difference. You must stop at all red lights and not proceed until it is green. Those little funeral flags are NOT card blanch to run reds! My brother in law spent a week in a coma after being T boned on his motorcycle while doing pay duty in Toronto. Several police forces will no longer do funeral escorts because of these risks and insurance issues.

I am in no way insinuating that police are staging infractions. I'm Not sure how you got that from my post.

What I am trying to point out is this plain and simple.

After years of claiming "there is no ticket quota", by police services across Canada and the United States. There now... Appears to be one in the Niagara Region....

After years, of denial about ticket quotas. One police service finally tells the public the truth. As a matter of fact I applaud them for doing so. Perhaps it will cut down on some of the stupid things I see other drivers do while driving. If people have it in their head that there is a quota.

My dad, who was a Drivers Ed instructor. (When Drivers ED. Was still being taught in high school.) Has told his students, since the mid 70's that there was a quota, and to take it easy on the road.. Now almost 40 years later he has his proof.

[darcyw]

A police officer's performance should be rated by the number of bad guys he kills in any given year. That way we can save us taxpayers valuable dollars in court costs.

darcy