Anyone recommend Pagid pads?

[DasVW]

I normally run Hawk Blue but have been getting some bad pad transfer and odd rotor wear with them. A Porsche buddy suggested Pagid, in particual Black.

Anyone have experience with these? I haven't been able to find local retailer, so I would have to order up from US.

[miataboi]

Flacid pants????????????





Can't say that I do!

[ScotcH]

Lots of BMW gusy run the Pagid orange, and like them a lot ... no personal experience though (I like my HT-10s )

[DasVW]

Originally Posted by miataboi

Flacid pants????????????

Can't say that I do!

WTH?

[23Racer]

We run Pagid pads on the Cobra R that we run out west. I don't know the exact compound but it is a full race enduro compound. The car weighs about 2900 lbs and was pulling close to 175 mph on the straights. We ran the whole 8 Hours on 1 set of pads. This was about twice as long as the Hawks and PFC pads we had run in the past. I think that they are a great long wearing pad.

Only drawbacks to the enduro race pad is material transfer as they come up to temp. This led to some severe pedal and car juddering in the wet. They cleaned up well in about 3 laps after really standing on the pedal. They need to run above approx 500 degrees constant temp to stay clean.

For a street pad i believe that they would be exceptional. They are great quality and did everything they were supposed to do.

Eric Nummelin

[Erik Z]

I think the compound that 23Racer is referring to is the yellow RS 19. I have no personal experience with them (or ANY full racing brake pads for that matter), but they do seem to come highly recommended from the Porsche crowd due to their longevity and low pad/rotor wear rates. The only drawback is price... I seem to recall one axle set of these enduro compounds for my 944 Turbo priced around $250US (though due to how long they supposedly last, they shouldn't come at too high of a premium when you think in $$$ per lap)...

Also, one thing to watch for with the Pagid blacks is that they actually have TWO black compounds; the RS 4-2-1 (a sport/light track use compound) and the RS 14 (a medium/high friction full-on race compound). Make sure you know which of the two you are getting if you end up ordering them...

[23Racer]

Erik, you guessed right. I checked with the team owner last night and the pads we ran were RS19. We have run HT-10's and various other pads as well but the Pagid RS19's worked the best, great feel and ability, as long as you kept them up in operating temperature.

Based on the quality of their full race pad, I would expect that a street or track day pad would be great.

Eric

[DasVW]

Some good points about operating tempatures guys. I searched around the net last night and many others made similar comments. These pads need to run in the designed operating temp to be effective. I found this info on the web:

RS 4-2-1 – BLACK Friction Level Cold 0.36
At 100°C 0.38
At 300°C 0.42
Max 0.45 @ 500°C
Constant working temperature 300 - 500°C
Max temperature for short period only 550°C

A very stable material with low disc wear. It has a wide operating range with good low temperature performance and low brake noise. Fitted as original equipment on many high performance road vehicles, this is the best all round pad for road use.

RS 4-2 – BLUE Friction Level Cold 0.40
At 100°C 0.42
At 300°C 0.43
Max 0.46 @ 550°C
Constant working temperature 350 - 600°C
Max temperature for short period only 650°C

The most popular material, (known as 'Pagid Blue'), RS4-2 gives a good low temperature response. It is very stable, with superior modulation and feel. RS4-2 has a medium co-efficient of friction with good pad and disc life. Suitable for many applications especially gravel rally and wet tarmac, where control is needed.

RS 4-4 – ORANGE Friction Level Cold 0.39
At 100°C 0.40
At 300°C 0.43
Max 0.49 @ 600°C
Constant working temperature 350 - 650°C
Max temperature for short period only 700°C

This material has a slightly higher friction level especially at high temperature. It is better for high temperature applications than RS4-2 and has a very stable torque pattern. Suitable for rear axle use on Touring Car applications and very popular in Porsche racing. It has been reported to be the most harshest compound on discs.

RS 14 – BLACK Friction Level Cold 0.44
At 100°C 0.47
At 300°C 0.49
Max 0.54 @ 600°C
Constant working temperature 400 - 700°C
Max temperature for short period only 800°C

A high friction, high temperature material with enviable pad life at this level of friction. Very kind to discs, easily modulated, and resistant to wheel lock in extreme use. Suitable for Touring Car, WRC, GT and other forms of medium weight single seater race cars that have good levels of grip.

RS 15 – GRAY Friction Level Cold 0.50
At 100°C 0.54
At 300°C 0.57
Max 0.62 @ 600°C
Constant working temperature 400 - 800°C
Max temperature for short period only 900°C

Pagid's newest material, a development of RS-14 which combines a 20% higher friction level with an improved initial bite. RS-15 has very good life and exceptional release characteristics. It is also very easily bedded in comparison to its competitors. Suitable for Touring car, GT and other applications requiring very high levels of friction and high temperature stability.

RS 19 – YELLOW Friction Level Cold 0.40
At 100°C 0.43
At 300°C 0.47
Max 0.49 @ 550°C
Constant working temperature 400 - 700°C
Max temperature for short period only 750°C

This material provides very good performance at all temperatures with immediate brake response. Very stable pad on ceramic base, with excellent fade resistance and low disc wear. Suitable for endurance racing, or applications where exceptional life is required

RS 29 – YELLOW Friction Level Cold 0.41
At 100°C 0.43
At 300°C 0.48
Max 0.50 @ 600°C
Constant working temperature 450 - 750°C
Max temperature for short period only 850°C

Very stable pad on ceramic base, with excellent fade resistance and low disc wear. Designed for endurance racing it is a greatly enhanced version of the RS-19. Not reccomended for sprint races or races of 50 or fewer laps.

[Mike Basden]

Generally speaking it's been my experience that Porsche guys tend to like Pagid, BMW tend to prefer PFC or Ferodo. What car are you running these on and what type of racing will you be doing (ie. enduros?)?

On the Grand Am GT3 Cup cars in GAC and Rolex we mainly used the black RS-14. We tried experimenting with the RS-19 yellows for the Rolex 24 but quickly reverted back to the blacks. On the 325's in WC we were the first to try out a new PFC compound and it was well worth the price. Everyone has there own experiences and biases.

[malcolm]

I agree with mike. Different people will like different pads. Some drivers prefer more initial bite.. others only care about modulation... blah blah blah. However, I've heard nothing but *excellent* things about Pagid. If I didn't just get a load of old free pads from another racing team for the 'vette, I'd likely try some Pagids. I know Joel Rieser (Porsche racer) swears by them.

[neon boy]

Pagids are an outstanding friction product produced by TMD friction. TMD Friction is a VERY large friction company that owns Pagid, Mintex, Mintex Racing and many more.

www.tmdfriction.com

William Dickson
Williams Performance Friction

[ScotcH]

Originally Posted by neon boy

Pagids are an outstanding friction product produced by TMD friction. TMD Friction is a VERY large friction company that owns Pagid, Mintex, Mintex Racing and many more.

www.tmdfriction.com

William Dickson
Williams Performance Friction

This is some really interresting info, William. It really makes you wonder who the big manufactures are, and who actually produces their own product. I assume Hawk makes their own compounds, as well as PF. What about Porterfield?

[neon boy]

I noticed Morse Brakes has signed on here www.morseauto.com

This is the largest family owned business in North America. It employes over 1,000 people and has friction companies all over the world and It looks like they are entering motorsports as well.

This is Satisfied brakes main competition and Morse is the main reason for the 300 plus layoffs at Satisfied.

Peter Morse is a very smart business operator. This is a North American company that battles the Chinese imports head on through extensive use of technology.

S.K Wellman is another VERY large friction company. Wellman is the inventer of Carbon Metallic brake pads and the Hawk Blue line is over 30 years old and still a great product.

www.wellmanproducts.com

Then there is the massive Japanese company Akebono
www.akebonobrakes.com

This company is Worldwide as well and has over 100 chassis and brake dynos in all of It's locations.This company just entered motorsports as well and is also available at the tirerack.com


We have had 19 friction companies go bankrupt in North America in the last 2 years because of imports. The latest employes 46,000 people Worldwide

www.dana.com

All I can say is I am glad I am small, 80,000 sq ft between Montreal and Mississauga and we are profitable because of a good product line and the extensive use of technology.

The Big guys are doing some serious market adjustments and the market is not big enough for all the big players. It is going to be an Interesting next 2 years watching the big guys fight it out.

There is going to be alot of LARGE bankrupt brake companies shortly.

Porterfield

Erik, I am not sure if they are a manufacturer or reboxer. They sell all kinds of other brake lines.

Most small manufactures buy their backing plates from me and this company does not so I am not sure.

William Dickson
Williams Performance Friction